CGT on sale of part of garden?

Re: CGT on sale of part of garden?

Postby pqtaxation on Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:51 pm

samtobuk wrote:.... but will have to declare the sale in self-assessment (something which I have never done before) as I pay income tax so do not meet both of the conditions described?
I presume 'chargeable gains' covers income? If not, I have not sold any other 'assets' nor intend to this year, so would that mean no need to declare?


No, I think your presumption is wrong. There will be no capital gains tax to pay as a result of your (plural) sale – the tax on your (single) gain will be fully extinguished by PPR relief and/or your (single) annual exempt amount (assuming no other gains in year).

The chargeable gain is only aggregated with your earned income in order to determine the rate of CGT (18% or 28%) on your chargeable gain (in your case there is none) and some other non-CGT aspects for high income earners.


mullet wrote:Sorry to be a dissenter, but I think that this disposal should be reported. .... Otherwise, what is to stop the owner of a property with a very large garden selling an area each year for £40,000? If there was no reporting requirement, how would HMRC have the chance to challenge it? There is a requirement for disposals involving properties with more than 0.5 Ha to be declared, but that does not cover the situation where just some garden is disposed of.


Why the choice of a £40K figure ? I don't have reference texts to hand at the moment but off the top of my head AFAIK the answer to your question is nothing -- obviously if the sale(s) subsequently comes to attention of HMRC and is queried then the necessary contracts and bills of sale must be made available to them, that is paperwork has to be in order.
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Re: CGT on sale of part of garden?

Postby mullet on Sun Feb 05, 2012 4:00 pm

Why the choice of a £40K figure
Because it is just below the reporting threshold.
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Re: CGT on sale of part of garden?

Postby maths on Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:28 pm

mullet

but I think that this disposal should be reported


What is your authority for this statement?

Inter alia, there is no requirement to lodge any formal claim for PPR relief.
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Re: CGT on sale of part of garden?

Postby mullet on Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:49 pm

Mullet - "But I think that this disposal should be reported"
Maths - "What is your authority for this statement?
It's only my thinking. It just doesn't feel right for it not to be reported. The difficulty in my mind is that PRR and LR are not subject to formal claim, but surely HMRC would expect partial relief to be shown?

How about someone disposing of a 20% share in a property for £40,000. Residence for part of the period of ownership, let for the rest. So part PRR, LR, net gain is £8,000. Should that be reported? My logical side says "yes", but my legislation/guidance side can't find any such instruction from HMRC.

The CG notes for 2006-07 say "exclude your home if the whole gain from its disposal is exempt as a result of private residence relief". Which infers that such a gain should not be excluded (forgive the double negative) if only part of the gain is covered by PRR. The 2007-08 (and later) CG notes are in a different format, and refer readers to HS283 - but that HS deals with technicalities rather than what should or should not be reported. I cannot find a similar instruction for 2007-08 and later.

So in full answer to your question Maths, I think my authority is a distant memory of the 2006-07 notes. But has that requirement just disappeared, or has it been included somewhere else? I pity the poor taxpaying public, trying to decide what should or should not be reported.
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Re: CGT on sale of part of garden?

Postby maths on Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:54 pm

I believe the starting point should be TCGA 1992 s 3A.

Accordingly re your query:

How about someone disposing of a 20% share in a property for £40,000. Residence for part of the period of ownership, let for the rest. So part PRR, LR, net gain is £8,000. Should that be reported?


then no report required.

PPR relief and Lettings Relief are not, I believe, "reliefs" in so far as a claim need be lodged in respect thereof; they simply reduce the amount of chargeable gain.
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Re: CGT on sale of part of garden?

Postby King_Maker on Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:47 am

I assume you did not have such a sale in mind when you purchased the property & land?
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Re: CGT on sale of part of garden?

Postby samtobuk on Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:40 am

Nope, this has come out of the blue from somone who has subsequently bought a neighbouring property to which this land is adjacent. Never thought anyone would be interested in it.

Does prior 'intent' have anything to do with it, out of interest?
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Re: CGT on sale of part of garden?

Postby King_Maker on Mon Feb 06, 2012 1:07 pm

samtobuk wrote:Nope, this has come out of the blue from somone who has subsequently bought a neighbouring property to which this land is adjacent. Never thought anyone would be interested in it.

Does prior 'intent' have anything to do with it, out of interest?


PPR exemption does not apply where the purpose was to realise a gain on disposal - although section 224(3) TCGA 1992 refers to "dwelling-house".
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