Executor of will

by **Overleigh** on Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:57 am

I am an executor of my late uncle's will. I am still gathering all the information necessary for the probate and IHT forms.
My uncle was retired and received a pension from his former employer, the local county authority.
My uncle died on 31/8/2011. His September pension payment went through before the provider could cancel it. The provider is now asking for the return of the September payment, £700+.
My question is: should I as the executor repay the £700+ straight away (I do have funds as I have sold my uncle's car) or will that action lead to problems when I complete the appropriate sections of IHT400?
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

by **Peter D** on Thu Oct 13, 2011 10:05 am

Do you have powers of Attorney. Ideally the payment should be paid out from the account to which it was paid in. Regards Peter

by **Overleigh** on Thu Oct 13, 2011 10:11 am

Thank you for your reply. No, I do not have power of attorney concerning my late uncle. The pension was paid into my uncle's bank account. As I understand it, until probate is granted funds in my uncle's bank account can only be used for settling the funeral expenses. That is why I was wondering if I should be repaying the pension out of my own bank account or waiting until probate has been granted.

by **pqtaxation** on Thu Oct 13, 2011 2:51 pm

Overleigh wrote: As I understand it, until probate is granted funds in my uncle's bank account can only be used for settling the funeral expenses. That is why I was wondering if I should repay the pension out of my own bank account or waiting until probate has been granted.

I think you’ll find your uncle’s bank will freeze his account on being told of his death. Pension payments are usually paid a month in advance so council is entitled to ask for refund of September payment dated 1 Sept but cannot demand repayment from a frozen account if you tell them that is where the money is lodged.

It’s really up to you whether you await the release to you of your uncle’s bank balance following grant of probate or whether you repay the council from other monies - such as you have received from selling his car.

Depending on the size and complexity of the specific estate, a lay executor (you) may wish to open a bank account in his name in which to deposit and pay out all monies to do with estate – it just allows a clear separation of estate funds from yours and gives an auditable trail of what you’ve done in case you become indisposed.

The cash balance at bank as at 31 Aug you will enter on IHT 205 (assuming no IHT is payable) excludes the later receipt of pension as will the estate accounts you will prepare at the end of your estate administration -- hence repayment of September pension received on 1 Sept is not included by you on either. Good luck with the rest of executor administaration

by **Overleigh** on Thu Oct 13, 2011 3:47 pm

Thank you pqtaxation for a most helpful reply. That has answered my question.
In my uncle's case IHT will be paid so I am working my way through IHT400 and all the extra schedules.
I have already tried to open an executor's bank account to keep a clear separation between my finances and my uncle's. I was recommended to go to Barclays for such an account, which I duly did, only to find that you cannot open an account until you have been granted probate. That seems to assume that executors will not have to handle any sums of money until after probate has been granted which is patently not the case.
Thanks again for your help. It is greatly appreciated.

by **maths** on Thu Oct 13, 2011 6:31 pm

Technically, the executors title to the deceased's assets (including monies in a bank account) arise on the date of death, not the date of grant of probate.

The executors can thus in principle access monies in a bank account and used as appropriate (eg repaying pension which relates to period post death).

Thus, a bank may agree to executors accessing the monies pre grant of probate.

However, generally in practice banks are reluctant to grant access to the executors without the production of probate (basically to protect "their back").

TRy the bank failing which you will have to wait the grant. Simplify notify the pension provider that as soon as probate has been granted an appropriate refund will be made; no need for you to fund the estate in the meantime.

by **Overleigh** on Mon Oct 17, 2011 7:33 pm

Thank you maths. In the end I decided to repay the pension overpayment out of my own funds. I had asked the local authority pension provider for information on another aspect of my late uncle's pension, so I could complete his income tax form, and to my surprise said they would not give me the information until I had repaid the overpayment and they had closed the account. I was not convinced they were acting correctly, but I wanted their cooperation so I made the repayment.

by **maths** on Tue Oct 18, 2011 7:31 pm

I think that the behaviour of the LA is appalling.

They are, of course, aware that until probate is obtained it is most unlikely that the bank will allow you (qua executor) to access the monies.

Unfortunately, their approach is typical of LAs and banks (a form of bullying) in many circumstances irrespective of the laws of the land.

I sympathise with your pragmatic approach.