Is it Fraud? - Need Your Idea / Suggestion

by **Kotake** on Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:58 pm

Hi,

I asked for £600 PAYE personal tax refund to HMRC and last Friday when I talked to them over the phone she said the cheque had been despatched on 1st March, but given the fact I hadn’t received by then, she said she would arrange the another one.

Then, today I received a phone call from HMRC Account Office Shipley saying the cheque was cashed-out on 18th March, Boy, I accessed to my business account through on-line banking and confirmed no such transaction at all.

The cheque is payable only to my company and I have only one business bank account – strange, how can it be happened, some scammer stole the cheque and did this fraud professionally - but how / when stolen since my mail box is locked.

The guy in HMRC will revert to me the detail bank & branch name of the cashout and I may have to report it to Police.

Would anybody have any idea about what sort of trick has been used if it was really stolen & cashed-out?
and would anybody have any suggestion to recover the money?

Appreciate any opinion.

Thank you.

by **JRG** on Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:51 pm

Firstly, check with HMRC that the address they have for you is correct. Some scammers send requests to have addresses changed, and some recipients don't check before doing so.

Secondly, next time get HMRC to make the refund by electronic transfer to your account. Much quicker and (usually) much safer.

If HMRC are issuing another cheque then, I believe, the onus is on them to recover the money.

by **Kotake** on Wed Mar 24, 2010 10:36 am

Hi JRG,

Many thanks for your reply.

Yes, electronic transfer is a good advice.

Regarding the mailing address, Yes, I confirmed the address they sent to, and it was correct.
What HMRC said was the cheque had been cashed out on 18th March, they are checking the detail name & branch of the bank where the cheque was cashed out.

As far as I see from Companies House site, there is no similar name as my company name, and I understand that bank never pay cash to the person who brought cheque but just credit into the bank account under the Payee name, am I right? Then I’m wondering what sort of trick does that crook use.

What would you say?

by **JRG** on Wed Mar 24, 2010 9:03 pm

Hi Kotake,

You are quite correct. A cheque should only be paid into an account that has the same name as the payee.

However, there are scenarios when this might not happen. For example: (1) If the person who cashed the cheque is well known by the counter staff, who might be persuaded to pay the cheque into a different account (illegal, but has been known to happen). (2) If the counter staff is an accomplice of the person who cashed the cheque. (3) If the cheque was paid in through an ATM (in which case the bank should always confirm that the payee on the cheque matches the account name before actually cashing the cheque).

You say that you checked the Companies House web site. I assume from this that you have a limited company (e.g. J. Smith (Decorators) Ltd.). However, if your company name is a trading name (e.g. J. Smith Decorators) then, I believe, anyone could open an account with the same name.

Best wait and see what the HMRC can find out.

Regards.

by **Generix** on Fri Aug 13, 2010 5:01 pm

Kotake wrote:Hi,

I asked for £600 PAYE personal tax refund to HMRC and last Friday when I talked to them over the phone she said the cheque had been despatched on 1st March, but given the fact I hadn’t received by then, she said she would arrange the another one.

Then, today I received a phone call from HMRC Account Office Shipley saying the cheque was cashed-out on 18th March, Boy, I accessed to my business account through on-line banking and confirmed no such transaction at all.

The cheque is payable only to my company and I have only one business bank account – strange, how can it be happened, some scammer stole the cheque and did this fraud professionally - but how / when stolen since my mail box is locked.

The guy in HMRC will revert to me the detail bank & branch name of the cashout and I may have to report it to Police.

Would anybody have any idea about what sort of trick has been used if it was really stolen & cashed-out?
and would anybody have any suggestion to recover the money?

Appreciate any opinion.

Thank you.

If we knew, we'd likely be busy cashing in cheques and not posting here

by **A Humbridge** on Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:46 am

Kotake does ask a very good question - and one to which I have never been able to find an answer.

There are several High Street 'money businesses' (akin to the old fashioned pawnboker) who claim to be able to instantly cash personal cheques provided that the bearer can produce ID which tallies with the payee's name on the cheque.

To me, this makes a nonsense of the 'account payee only' safeguard/restriction that, pretty much, applies to all cheques.

By what legal mechanism do these 'money businesses' then get the cheques processed?

Cheers . . .

by **Generix** on Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:09 am

A Humbridge wrote:Kotake does ask a very good question - and one to which I have never been able to find an answer.

There are several High Street 'money businesses' (akin to the old fashioned pawnboker) who claim to be able to instantly cash personal cheques provided that the bearer can produce ID which tallies with the payee's name on the cheque.

To me, this makes a nonsense of the 'account payee only' safeguard/restriction that, pretty much, applies to all cheques.

By what legal mechanism do these 'money businesses' then get the cheques processed?

Cheers . . .

I always assume what they meant by instantly cash personal cheques, was that you go in write them a cheque (payable from you to them) and they will give you the equiv cash value of the cheque (less a fee) instantly, they will then submit the cheque for clearance (on an agreed date?).

That's how I've always assumed they work?

by **A Humbridge** on Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:22 am

Generix,

>>>>Re. having a written cheque, payee 'High Street Money Shop'', immediately cashed.

No, that is not what I was referring to. (Although, I'm sure the 'Shops' will provide that service, as well).

Specifically, the 'Shops' will cash any cheque - even 'official' cheques (eg DHSS, HMRC etc) - made payable to a person's name, providing the bearer has some form of the payee's ID.

Anybody know the legal mechanism by which it is performed?

Cheers . . .