Late filing penalty

[richardhowell]

On 29/01/11 I filed my tax return online. I downloaded a copy of the pdf file, and the properties of this file show it was created on 29/01/11. A few months after this I received a late filing penalty claiming that I had not made a return. I argued the case by sending them a hardcopy of the file I downloaded plus evidence from the Widows file properties on the date of creation. The only response I got was that they couldn't accept the Copy as my return. I have since been charged a further £100 for late filing. I've tried speaking to these idiots but have never been successful because of the length of the waiting queues and the huge phone charges I was incurring. Please tell me what to do.

[maths]

Not really my scene so await comments from others; however, it may be advisable to lodge an appeal against the penalty as provided for in FA 2009 Sch 55 para 20.

[RAL]

Can you log in your online and check whether you actually submitted the tax return? It might be the case that the return was not filed. Did you receive email notification that they received the tax return?

Did you pay all due tax by due date i.e. 31/01/2011? You may get your penalties if you paid all tax due by the due date.

Best to check online in your account whether you filed the return or not?

if not filed, I suggest filed ASAP i.e. before 31/01/2012 as HMRC will issue further penalties.

[Generix]

On 29/01/11 I filed my tax return online. I downloaded a copy of the pdf file, and the properties of this file show it was created on 29/01/11. A few months after this I received a late filing penalty claiming that I had not made a return. I argued the case by sending them a hardcopy of the file I downloaded plus evidence from the Widows file properties on the date of creation. The only response I got was that they couldn't accept the Copy as my return. I have since been charged a further £100 for late filing. I've tried speaking to these idiots but have never been successful because of the length of the waiting queues and the huge phone charges I was incurring. Please tell me what to do.

Just fyi it is very easy to change the creation date on the properties of any file.

[richardhowell]

First of all, thanks for your responses.
I didn't have any tax to pay. It was covered by PAYE.
I'm confused about what is meant by the return being "filed". If I filled out the form and clicked "Submit", doesn't that make it filed? The fact that I was able to download the pdf - is that not an indication that the return was submitted and filed? Am I missing something?
I've logged on to my account and there doesn't appear to be an option to file/submit my last year's return. But I'll check again.

[RAL]

Generally when you log in HMRC account, there is a message on right hand side something like
"File a return for 2010-11
Tax year ending 05 Apr 2011
HM Revenue & Customs received your tax return on 29 Dec 2011. Then it should say you can view your last submitted tax return or make an amendment to this return.

Or it may state this

"File a return for 2010-11
Tax year ending 05 Apr 2011
You have started to complete a tax return for this year but not yet submitted it."

So if you have not submitted the tax return or you might have submitted but HMRC have not received means you have not filed your tax return. If you have not field your tax return you must file it online. You can file paper but that will generate more penalties.

I came across few times, when people think they completed the tax return but forgot to submit it.

Also when you submit the tax return online you should also receive the "receipt of submission".

I hope this helps. Contact me and I will see if I can explain you when you log in your account.

[RAL]

I used tax date for 2010/2011, and I know OP is talking about filing tax return in Jan-2011.

[richardhowell]

OK - I've been online and took the opportunity of filing this year's return. And I've made doubly sure that it was submitted, received and filed, and I've got the submission receipt and a receipt reference number!
As for last year's return - yes, it shows as "outstanding". There's no evidence that I even attempted to fill it out, eg. there's no partially completed form which I saved (and I'm pretty sure I clicked the Save button more than once during the process).
I noticed when filling out this year's form that I wasn't invited to download a copy until I had completed the whole process. Presumably the same applied last year. So how could I have downloaded last year's if I hadn't completed it?
At the bottom of each page of the saved form there's a 32 digit alphanumeric code. Could this be used as some kind of evidence that I made the return?
I'm convinced that this is the result of a systems glitch on HMRC's computer systems. But how do I go about proving it?

[RAL]

Richard

OK. As the system says outstanding and HMRC have not record of receiving the return. I am not sure how you can prove it.

You may have created or attempted to make or prepared the return. As HMRC has not received, so not sure how you can prove it. You can appeal against the penalty but I think you would be wasting your time.

The very little information available from your post once can presume that If there is no tax due or all the tax was paid on 31/01/2011 then there should not be a penalty. And once you file the return, the penalty should go revoked. If you are in doubt, I recommend to see a professional adviser.

[richardhowell]

Thanks RAL.
Has anyone got information or views about this 32 digit code on the form. (The receipt reference number I've got for this year's return is also 32 digits). There must be an audit trail or something which could be searched using this code and showing that I was at least attempting to file a return even if the transaction didn't complete.