Like a bulldog with a bone

by **roy19550** on Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:56 pm

Hi all
I am new here but boy do I wish I had found this site a couple of years ago
Investigations lasted almost 3 years now
Stress put me under a pshyciatrist and had Alcohol detox twice in that time.
Seriously considered topping myself
Dr asked tax man a year ago to come to a conclusion (regardless of what that might be)
I have an accountant handeling it (was insured) but dont know if he is efficient
He has attended all meetings on my behalf.
The pressure eventualy caused me to close (son/wife opened a phoenix)
8 weeks ago the accountant went to a settlement meeting and seemed to come to an agreement, the stumbling block was tax man wanted 15K paid back to the company (the declared loss for that year but no proof where the money came from to make the loss ie broken cash flow but I was holding 20k in not yet due VAT).
Accountants fear is he will want the same for other years if we agree so we offered a one off without predujice payment on the condition that no other years were opened, just to get him off my back!
Tax man said it was acceptable but needed to alter his figures so he could come up with the same amount
His version of the accounts read more like the Beano than ours do! (I am the major creditor after VAT when it liquidates on the basis of recent unpaid wages, bank accounts closed, no assets whatsoever) but now tax man has gone back on his word and is going fishing again on the personal side.
He now wants a statement of assets, can this be demanded or can I refuse,
My problem is following the year being investigated I inhereted some money and invested it all in property, all income has been declared, can they demand a current asset statement when they are investigating 2006/7
my feeling is that they are going after a % of my assets regardless of any true figures proven.
Also is there a higher body that can order him to speed up the investigation?
I feel like I am being persecuted!
Thanks in advance

Roy

by **tom 7000** on Wed Jun 15, 2011 6:49 pm

Sounds to me like you have an overdrawn directors loan account and a CT bill he is chasing, if he requires you to pay money back to an insolvent co. In which case you need the total on the loan account in the last accounts

If its insolvent, you know how much it will cost him to appoint a receiver and then chase you for the money...I have seen people doing deals for 10-15% of what was due. It all comes down to horse trading at some point.

Seems to me like you are not relying on your accountant, there shouldnt be any stress for you, he should be there to take it for you.

If you are self employed, theres no ltd liability and youre on a much stickier wicket and he coul bankrupt you.

This shouldnt take ages, how big is the firm of accountant that you have, the bigger they are the better they are - good rule of thumb- and is he qualified, shouldnt take more than 2 or 3 letters to sort something little like this out ( I know it may sound big to you, but in the great scheme of things and from stuff i have seen its not)

The pressure you bring is on your accountant. Get all the paperwork you have and get someone nearby to give you a 2nd opinion

tom@ttca.co.uk

tom

by **roy19550** on Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:50 pm

Thanks tom
Yes its a ltd company but like you say they are considering the loss as an overdrawn loan account and they want me to ballance it out of my own pocket (not going to happen) and then go after it for CT
My fear is that they then go for other years adjustments
Year before was in profit and the year after the loss was made up in month 1 and was in a small profit at year end
Problem is they are after personal side as well.
It a large respected accountancy.
Made 128k cap gain and paid the tax on it that year as well so its not as if they did not get their pound of flesh! (invested that and bought the freehold of the buisness premises in personal name not company)
Can they ask for a current statement of assets?

by **tom 7000** on Thu Jun 16, 2011 5:57 pm

The o/d directors loan account is amalgamated so they only chase you for the balance at the end. Did the accountants not get you to pay any S419 tax on this as you went along, if they did this may be refunded/ offset.

If you have an o/d balance, yes they can chase you for it and yes they can bankrupt you to get it. Its cheaper to do a deal

by **mullet** on Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:00 am

The pressure eventualy caused me to close (son/wife opened a phoenix)

HMRC will not have been impressed with that.

Can they ask for a current statement of assets?

Yes. What's the issue? Why not complete a statement of assets and liabilities and allow them to move on. Or would that give HMRC something to be concerned about?

by **wamstax** on Sat Jul 16, 2011 12:54 am

I would ask the Inspector why he wants a SOA given that the investigation/enquiry has been into the company and it seems that he may have been on a sticky wicket establishing that the company's profits werre understated if he is merely looking to make good the loss for the year (i.e. no profit and no loss) as your personal extraction of company monies (probably on the basis that you took company monies without recording them or treated paersonal expenses as company business expenses.

You really need to sit down with your accountant and get him to explain in words of one syllable exactly what (if anything) HMRC have proved is wrong with the company records. His comment about adjustign matters to get the same figures from a one year settlement as he would have got for a number of years does seem a flawed approach and one that could potentially be exploited in any settlement negotiations.