refusal of asc 19 even though information supplied

[Barney5648]

Thank you all for your responses I have written them the following letter
Following my last conversation over the phone on 20th Dec 2011 I made it quite clear that I would be contesting your decision not to apply ESC A19 as I was given contradicting reasons.
When I spoke to an advisor on 3rd Jan 2012 she advised me that there was no record on her system of this, I hope this situation has been rectified.
I am also writing because the information I requested from you will not be sent to me for about 3 weeks hence delaying my response.
I will contact you again when I have correlated all the relevant information.
I did not say that I was not prepared to pay any sums at present but will inevitably cooperate with them in relation to any subsequent established debt. Also I did not advise them that as matters are still open I'll look for their agreement that all demands will be put on hold and that they will not take any actions -such as issuing tax returns in relation to the years concerned ( which they have sent me to fill in for 2008-09 and 2009-2010)- until I have obtained the further information I am now requesting from their Data Protection Officer
I presume from your reply I do not need to fill in the tax returns sent to me?
I was however put through on 20th Dec to a department that would allow me to pay the deficit over three years and they would send me the relevant forms for a direct debit. I did mention to them I was still in dispute.

[wamstax]

Unfortunately they have already issued you with tax returns which suggests that you did not approach matters correctly as if you fill in the tax returns then you will inevitably have to enter the full income and the inadequate amount of tax deducted. This will unfortunately crystallise the exact same underpayment that they informally notified you of on forms P800.

Then of course interest and surcharges will run on the tax unpaid from the date that it should have been paid until settlement.

Tax returns have got to be filled in within 3 months if they were issued after the normal date so unless you are prepared to stand good for a late filing penalty you will be forced to file the returns by the filing date (i.e. normally 3 months and 7 days from the date of issue).

The trouble is that you have gone so far without professional advice and seemingly some of the damage has been done as matters have escalated to the issue of tax returns and it is difficult to say what will work to thwart their bully boy "taxtics" without a full review of all matters and correspondence that has passed between you. This of course is not possible on a forum such as this.

You could of course consider the following link http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/sa/need-tax-return.htm but they will probably get you on the part which says You owe tax and HMRC can't collect it through your tax code, or you prefer to pay direct
If you pay tax through PAYE and owe tax at the end of the year, you'll need a return if either of the following applies:

•HMRC can't collect the tax due by making a change to your tax code (they'll tell you if this is the case)
•you don't want to pay the tax through your tax code - you prefer to make a direct payment instead

[wamstax]

of course what you could do is wait until the very last minute and then complete the tax returns and send them in manually but claim relief under ESC A19 for any tax underpaid as a result of HMRC's failure to make proper and timely use of information provided by either yourself or your employer or pension provider. I am sure that this would not be an acceptable way of completing the tax return according to HMRC and you could expect them to either open an enquiry into the tax return or make an assessment on the basis that they have discovered that tax has been underpaid (for whatever reasons arose). This should however give you the right to pursue your claim for the extra statutory concession to be applied and if necessary get a review carried out by somebody not involved in the ESC A19 handlers management chain and then to go to First Tier Tribunal on the basis that you do not accept HMRC's view of matters.

Of course any disclosure of information under the DPA should put you in a position to consider everything fully however you should be aware that once the tax returns are completed (which they will have to be) procedures will fall into place to incur interest and surcharges for tax paid late.

[Gnome]

I've had a lot of experience of ESC A19 over the last year or so - a large number of employees at the company where I am a Tax Manager received assessments based on ancient information. When the assessments were queried employees were invariably told that the underpayments had arisen because their nasty employer had failed to inform HMRC of benefits in kind (or whatever had caused the underpayment) - which, not to put too fine a point on it, was a lie. Cue irate calls from colleagues blaming me for everything from the Kennedy assassination to the UK's continued failure to win the Eurovision Song Contest. Also cue written apology from HMRC circulated to all staff!

The problem with the use of ESC A19 is that, much like the offside law, it's application is based on a matter of fact coupled with a matter of opinion. Was the player in an offside position at the time the ball was played (fact), if so did he gain or was he seeking to gain an advantage (opinion). Did HMRC deal with information received in a timely and proper manner (Fact) and, if not, was it reasonable for the taxpayer to believe their affairs were up to date and in order (opinion).

Since opinions are involved, the granting of the concession is largely dependent on the individual tax officer dealing with the case. Some take a practical view of things, applying the definition of "reasonable" to that which the ordinary man on the street might understand. Others start from the point of view that every taxpayer ought to know exactly what their tax position is 24 hours a day, reading a few chapters of Tolleys every night just to keep up to date with legislation.

As a result I've seen ESC A19 applications from people turned down where people had every reason to believe things were in order - having been told so by HMRC, and I've seen the concession granted to people who were quite happily driving around in company cars for years without it occurring to them that the things might be taxable!

[Barney5648]

Again thank you all for your informative replies
I think the only course open to me is to wait till I have received all the information from them and if there are any discrepancies or notifications missing (the ones I can't find) The bottom line is that I did not pay tax on my pension I was unaware of this fact as a tax code was issued to my provider by them.
The tax returns (to which I will add that I am still in dispute with them) will only cement this fact but I will see what kind of timescale I have left when I have analysed the information and composed my reply .

[Barney5648]

I have sent letter asking for final decision then taking to Adjudicator also asked for all information No evidence of my tax coding for these years. Whilst this happening been sent tax returns for these years returned with note saying still in dispute received bills with accurate tax owing due date passed (Which is quite obvious)and interest & surcharges if not payed by next statement. Should I wait of final decision or reply to letters now still disputing tax? Any advice would be most helpful