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Where Taxpayers and Advisers Meet

HMRC getting figures wrong lettings

pfd17
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2015 2:32 pm

HMRC getting figures wrong lettings

Postby pfd17 » Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:05 pm

I am pulling my hair out at this moment, where to start some brief facts: rent portfolio,
All figures submitted to HMRC at this stage both Accountant and I have trolled thought figures several times, figures correct.
HMRC state an under declaring of figures. First figure was just under £400 k
After a considerable amount of investigating on our behalf one figure supplied by HMRC was 2 decimal points incorrect.
HMRC stated the figure supplied ay an agent was £308,718.00 SHOULD have read £3,087.18 (figure from memory for purpose of forum)

We are now down to less then £100k after probing HMRC further the figure has come down again, we are stuck at a point where HMRC are stating that an agent has filed a return of a property claiming over £22k has been received. This figure is over and above what we have filed in our returns, therefor this figure is clearly a mistake of some kind, as we have already declared the rental income, therefor to add this figure in you would of needed to rent the property TWICE full 52 weeks of the year and above what you have already been receiving!.
Have contacted the agent whom has stated that their a/c's are in achieve. Will obviously e-mail them with full details and pleading for any help get to the bottom of these in-correct figures.

My question is, what should I do ?? I keep telling my accountant to send off our full spreadsheet which shows all rents etc but he keeps wanting to receive the above figures from HMRC which are wrong and then we go round looking for figures that don't exist.

robbob
Posts: 2662
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:01 pm

Re: HMRC getting figures wrong lettings

Postby robbob » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:11 pm

i am guessing an agent has filed everything on your behalf - if this is not the case can you advise exactly who has submitted what and when and what you have asked agent to do - if you have done your own filings comments below are probably not fully relevant as the ball is more in your court than the agents?
at this stage both Accountant and I have trolled thought figures several times, figures correct.
HMRC stated the figure supplied by an agent was £308,718.00 SHOULD have read £3,087.18 (figure from memory for purpose of forum)
Ok - lets cut to the chase - are you sure your Agent knows what they are doing and isn't covering up for their own inpeptitude?

I can't remember the last time i needed to get a client involved where we as agents have prepared and submitted figures on their behalf, it shouldn't be you worry unless its an investigation type situation where hmrc are questioning your business records and how the figures where calculated.
My question is, what should I do ?? I keep telling my accountant to send off our full spreadsheet which shows all rents etc but he keeps wanting to receive the above figures from HMRC which are wrong and then we go round looking for figures that don't exist.
Presuming agent did submission get ultra heavy with them immediately, they should give you clear advise on what they can do and when and if they need any info from you.

If agent is fobbing you off you may have to go back to square one and get a different agent who can put you back in the position where you have been - note trying to get any recompense for situations like this isn't easy if agent is stonewalling you now is your best time to say you need this sorted and sorted now by their most experienced staff member (owner) so you are not fobbed off. If you need to swap agents immediately ring hmrc update them on the situation (if money is being demanded)and advise how long it may take for an update. Bear in mind any amendment filing deadlines - after 31st January or 12 months after filing you may have less options to correct what is wrong easily

wamstax
Posts: 1841
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2008 3:39 pm
Location: Operate Nationally but based in Aberdeen
Contact:

Re: HMRC getting figures wrong lettings

Postby wamstax » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:50 pm

Get a new agent!!! Seriously though why are you trying to resolve these issues and why has HMRC not gone to your tax accountant directly in the first place? Surely if your accountant submitted your tax return they should be able to resolve matters without you spending loads of time on it if it is errors in what was fed on to the tax return.
Don’t tell me your accountant entered £ and pence in a column without a point separating the £ and pence in a £ only column.

You need somebody pro active to get this resolved and if it’s because of accountant errors they should be correcting matters at no charge
regards and hope this helps
http://www.wamstaxltd.com
Operates Nationally with competitive costs
and email and phone contact can be obtained from website

pfd17
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2015 2:32 pm

Re: HMRC getting figures wrong lettings

Postby pfd17 » Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:32 pm

Hello
Many thx for both replies.
Let me make things a little clearer.
firstly we are talking about a property portfolio, there is a managing agent, THEN we have several "letting agents" and we are talking about a tax year 2014- 2015.
We no longer use the letting agent in questions (£22k error) we have however asked that they supply figures and breakdown to ourselves as what has been supplied to HMRC .
Our accountant has stated that HMRC will "believe" the agents figures. The letting agents figures are incorrect.
Our accountant filed our returns, correctly, and HMRC started an investigation as there was "undeclared income" this is incorrect.
All rental payments have been accounted for. We have found the errors , only by asking HMRC for further information i.e. what agent supplied the info, only then by going back to (in the case of £308,718.00 ) were we able to establish from the agent that they provided the correct figure (£3,087.18) When presented to HMRC our accountant was told "there was an error down the line" ! .

As I stated earlier this figure has now has whittled down to less than £100K, and in the mean time we have been able to whittle this down further as it has been double accounted.
Now we are down to the figure of the £22k, We have asked the agent involved to respond. But as you can see from earlier the revenue is going to side on the Agent.

robbob
Posts: 2662
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:01 pm

Re: HMRC getting figures wrong lettings

Postby robbob » Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:42 pm

If the letting agent has supplied figures to hmrc that are 22k over the top then the letting agent needs to get their act into gear and sort themselves out so you don't have to explain 22k that doesn't exist. In the absence of confirmation from the letting agent that their figures are nonsense you may waste a great deal of time trying to convince hmrc that this is the case.

convey to the letting agent the seriousness of the issue - they shouldn't be providing hmrc info that is wrong - and if they do they should be doing everything in their power to ensure the wrongness is corrected.


with regard to hmrc in the interim request exact copies of calculation of figures they have been supplied with so tat hopefully you may be able to cross reference totals and find out where the supplied info has gone wrong.

Other than that send em the full calculations and documentation from your side and stand you ground and advise these are full and correct unless you can highlight any errors - its not the ideal route though.
Our accountant has stated that HMRC will "believe" the agents figures. The letting agents figures are incorrect.
HMRC should go with the best factual information they receive whether that be from you or the letting agent - although the easiest course of action is for the letting agent to confirm to hmrc their figures are not reliable - ideally with an explanation as to why that is the case.

Note if you can prove any errors in the figures provided to hrmc by the letting agent that should be enough IMHO to render the rest of the information as being somewhat unreliable - so any part of the 22k remaining that you can show the agents provided figures where nonsense then hopefully that will help hmrc go away.


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