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Where Taxpayers and Advisers Meet

Form 17 never submitted to HMRC on a joint BTL

xenicus
Posts:3
Joined:Thu Jan 27, 2022 5:28 pm
Form 17 never submitted to HMRC on a joint BTL

Postby xenicus » Thu Jan 27, 2022 5:38 pm

Hi all,

Looking for some assistance please and wonder if anyone would be kind enough to help.

My wife and I own a single BTL flat and have since 2016. Having recently reviewed the deed it clearly states we are both owners. I'm a higher rate tax payer, my wife is a basic rate. We had a declaration of trust drawn up stating she owned 99% and I owned %1. This was done at our request by the solicitors at the time of the property purchase. The need for a form 17 was never mentioned.

We hired an accountant to do our taxes that year as we frankly didn't know what we were doing. They were authorised to act on our behalf with HMRC and submitted our returns for that year. Unfortunately we had a number of issues with the accountants and as a result we started doing our own returns in subsequent years. The need for a form 17 was never mentioned by them.

Doing our self assessment this year I came across the need for form 17 and suddenly got a sinking feeling that it had probably never been submitted. I called HMRC and this is indeed the case, so we now have to go back and pay tax assuming a %50 %50 split for the last 5 years. I am in the middle of working this out but it will come to about £4000.

Feeling pretty burned by all this, from my perspective we tried to do the right thing here and hired professionals at each step however no one advised us on the need for form 17 to be completed.

I'm already resigned to working out and paying the tax owed myself, but can anyone suggest another course of action that might be available to us?

Thanks.

bd6759
Posts:4262
Joined:Sat Feb 01, 2014 3:26 pm

Re: Form 17 never submitted to HMRC on a joint BTL

Postby bd6759 » Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:57 am

No way around it. 50/50 is mandatory unless and until form 17 is submitted.

The form cannot be backdated and must be given to HMRC within 60 days of it being signed, otherwise it is invalid.

xenicus
Posts:3
Joined:Thu Jan 27, 2022 5:28 pm

Re: Form 17 never submitted to HMRC on a joint BTL

Postby xenicus » Mon Jan 31, 2022 12:41 am

Thank you for confirming.

pawncob
Posts:5090
Joined:Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:06 pm
Location:West Sussex

Re: Form 17 never submitted to HMRC on a joint BTL

Postby pawncob » Mon Jan 31, 2022 9:11 pm

Some are never satisfied.
https://www.accountingweb.co.uk/any-answers/form-17-never-submitted-for-btl
With a pinch of salt take what I say, but don't exceed your RDA

xenicus
Posts:3
Joined:Thu Jan 27, 2022 5:28 pm

Re: Form 17 never submitted to HMRC on a joint BTL

Postby xenicus » Tue Feb 01, 2022 3:43 am

Some are never satisfied.
https://www.accountingweb.co.uk/any-answers/form-17-never-submitted-for-btl
Which was posted inappropriately in the wrong place.

Immediately and understandably derailing the question and answers, with at least one person stating they cannot give advice.

Ultimately resulting in at least one suggestion to post here, which I followed and now have done hoping for a conclusion having requested the other thread is closed.

This is a significant issue for me resulting in an outcome that feels deeply unfair and is far from ideal.

robbob
Posts:3228
Joined:Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:01 pm

Re: Form 17 never submitted to HMRC on a joint BTL

Postby robbob » Tue Feb 01, 2022 10:12 am

This is a significant issue for me resulting in an outcome that feels deeply unfair and is far from ideal.
There is one very simple question did your seek specific advise in this rergard to get sorted, if you engaged and paid someone to sort then i would like to hope the pi insurance of the firm involved would cover it.

If you had informal chit chat and simply presumed everything would be ok without enagaging (and presumably paying someone ) someone to sort on your behalf then i would kind of expect this situation to arise.

Your chosen tax saving route is at the advanced level of things (depsite the fact it may be simple to complete forms - the skill is in knowing what to do)

So starter for 10 question did you engage and pay soemone to fully sort this issue - if you did have you checked with taht firms pi ?

in summary form 17 is something that needs be looked at at the very top level - its you signing on the dotted line - imho its 100% up to you to engage whoever to makke sure that was fully sorted on your behalf.

bd6759
Posts:4262
Joined:Sat Feb 01, 2014 3:26 pm

Re: Form 17 never submitted to HMRC on a joint BTL

Postby bd6759 » Wed Feb 02, 2022 12:27 am

Given some of the ridiculous replies on accountingweb, I’d be wary of criticising the poster for not seeking “professional” advice.

Responsibility was with the accountant he hired to ask him specific questions in order to correctly complete the return. That was the accountant’s job.

etf
Posts:1278
Joined:Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:25 pm

Re: Form 17 never submitted to HMRC on a joint BTL

Postby etf » Mon Feb 21, 2022 8:21 am

Given some of the ridiculous replies on accountingweb, I’d be wary of criticising the poster for not seeking “professional” advice.
If a peron in a forest in Borneo is able to complete the paperwwork required to dispose of an asset sitated in the UK, he is quite clearly in the position to report that sale at the correct time.
In May 2021 the Office of Tax Simplification made recommendations on CGT including that the government should consider extending the 30-day deadline to 60 days.

Following calls from ICAEW the government has confirmed that many taxpayers will now have twice as much time to report and pay capital gains tax after selling property in the UK.


Even the most technically able are occasionally guilty of the above said crime on Taxationweb.

bd6759
Posts:4262
Joined:Sat Feb 01, 2014 3:26 pm

Re: Form 17 never submitted to HMRC on a joint BTL

Postby bd6759 » Thu Feb 24, 2022 1:14 am

Still playing with your coloured crayons!

etf
Posts:1278
Joined:Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:25 pm

Re: Form 17 never submitted to HMRC on a joint BTL

Postby etf » Thu Feb 24, 2022 10:54 am

Yes, if I consider it helps to highlight a dubious call from an individual who criticises other posters for making ridiculous posts. The filing window has doubled from 30 days to 60 days since your post which suggests, on this matter, your judgement was not correct.

HMRC is supposed to treat taxpayers fairly and yet when FOI statistics showed an increase from 3% to 99% successful NRCGT late filing appeals, you appear to have a problem with me continuing to flag HMRC's apparent law breaking behaviour. By all means point out if my analysis is flawed, but your sniping comments (coloured crayons being the latest), for me, temper your technical posts which are understandably valued by Taxationweb's readers.


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