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Where Taxpayers and Advisers Meet

SDLT query - own 2 BTLs but going onto partner's deeds.

Hans76
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:49 pm

SDLT query - own 2 BTLs but going onto partner's deeds.

Postby Hans76 » Tue Feb 07, 2017 4:52 pm

Hi All. Looking for some clarification.

I own a flat purchased in sole name, June 2012. This was my only property and was used as sole residence from then until Feb 2016, when I put it on a BTL mortgage and tenants moved in. I moved into my partner's house which he had bought in 2015 (I am named on the council tax bill as living there from Feb 2016 and bank statements go there etc). I am not on the mortgage or deeds for this house. In March 2016 we purchased a BTL flat in my name only.

We are now looking at selling my partner's house, moving to a bigger house and buying in joint names. So that a new more expensive house isn't seen as an additional property for me - thereby attracting an enormous SDLT surcharge, I have sought my solicitors advice on getting on my partner's deeds, therefore we would be replacing a main residence with a new one and not pay anything above the normal stamp.

Solicitor has said that as there is a mortgage balance of £128k, I will be seen as having a consideration of £64k and have to pay SDLT at 3% of the £64k (£1920) for the half of the house I am effectively getting. No money will change hands when I go on his deeds.

My point to the solicitor was that the house has already been purchased paying the relevant SDLT in 2015 and I moved into it as my main residence before the new rules came in. Solicitor confident that even though it is my main residence, as I am not on any docs for it, I am effectively buying into another property so will have to pay the surcharge.

Should I definitely be paying the 3% on the consideration I am being give in my partner's house..?

Thanks in advance.

section 44
Posts: 4468
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2008 12:47 pm

Re: SDLT query - own 2 BTLs but going onto partner's deeds.

Postby section 44 » Wed Feb 08, 2017 12:37 pm

You need to clarify your post with regards to we, my, our and I etc
In March 2016 we purchased a BTL flat in my name only.
So is this flat owned by both you and your partner (albeit with you acting as a nominee) or is this solely your flat?
We are now looking at selling my partner's house
So are you and your partner selling your house or is your partner looking to sell his house?
getting on my partner's deeds
Merely as a nominee? Presumably not given your later comments.
My point to the solicitor was that the house has already been purchased paying the relevant SDLT in 2015
But the acquisition by your partner in 2015 is a different land transaction to the proposed acquisition by you now.
I am being give in my partner's house..?
But you're not being given it. You are assuming debt.

Hans76
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:49 pm

Re: SDLT query - own 2 BTLs but going onto partner's deeds.

Postby Hans76 » Wed Feb 08, 2017 1:48 pm

Hi Section -
In March 2016 we purchased a BTL flat in my name only.
We both put money towards the second BTL, but on paper everything is in my name.

So is this flat owned by both you and your partner (albeit with you acting as a nominee) or is this solely your flat?
All in my name
We are now looking at selling my partner's house
So are you and your partner selling your house or is your partner looking to sell his house?

I don't own a house, I own the two flats. He bought it in his name in 2015, I am not on any paperwork
getting on my partner's deeds
Merely as a nominee? Presumably not given your later comments.

I don't know that I know the difference to be frank, but I assume that it will show is as 50/50 owners
My point to the solicitor was that the house has already been purchased paying the relevant SDLT in 2015
But the acquisition by your partner in 2015 is a different land transaction to the proposed acquisition by you now.

Ok, yes, I get your point.
I am being give in my partner's house..?
But you're not being given it. You are assuming debt.[/quote]

I am assuming debt, but by virtue of there being a 100k equity, I also assumed I'd effectively be being given a portion of that too.


The main aim of all of it is to lessen the SDLT when we trade up as we will be looking to move from 230k to 350 ish, paying an extra surcharge makes it so much more expensive, I am trying to get around it as cheaply as possible.

Thanks in advance.

section 44
Posts: 4468
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2008 12:47 pm

Re: SDLT query - own 2 BTLs but going onto partner's deeds.

Postby section 44 » Wed Feb 08, 2017 6:35 pm

Solicitor confident that even though it is my main residence, as I am not on any docs for it, I am effectively buying into another property so will have to pay the surcharge.
I can see why your solicitor would be confident.
getting on my partner's deeds, therefore we would be replacing a main residence with a new one and not pay anything above the normal stamp.
It may be worth considering further your reasoning here.

Hans76
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:49 pm

Re: SDLT query - own 2 BTLs but going onto partner's deeds.

Postby Hans76 » Wed Feb 08, 2017 8:43 pm

getting on my partner's deeds, therefore we would be replacing a main residence with a new one and not pay anything above the normal stamp.
It may be worth considering further your reasoning here.[/quote]

And by that you mean?

section 44
Posts: 4468
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2008 12:47 pm

Re: SDLT query - own 2 BTLs but going onto partner's deeds.

Postby section 44 » Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:42 am

I mean that if I were you I would give further consideration to your reasoning and the conclusion that you have reached from that reasoning.

Hans76
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:49 pm

Re: SDLT query - own 2 BTLs but going onto partner's deeds.

Postby Hans76 » Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:02 pm

Right, well, thanks for your comments. I would say your help, but I'm not sure that applies. Unless repeating what I've said with no real intention of shedding light on the situation, is nowadays classed as help. I had assumed that I may have received some useful pointers, rather than be asked questions which had mainly been already answered in my original query. The personal pronouns used were all accurately placed and as such I didn't see why you needed clarification. Some you win, some you lose... I'll go and find my treacle to wade through...

section 44
Posts: 4468
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2008 12:47 pm

Re: SDLT query - own 2 BTLs but going onto partner's deeds.

Postby section 44 » Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:11 pm

The personal pronouns used were all accurately placed
Quite:
We are now looking at selling my partner's house
rather than be asked questions which had mainly been already answered in my original query
Answers like this?
therefore we would be replacing a main residence with a new one and not pay anything above the normal stamp.
As you say it is an answer and if that is all that you are interested then I am sorry that I even suggested that you might want to reconsider your reasoning in arriving at this answer.

maths
Posts: 7580
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2008 3:25 pm

Re: SDLT query - own 2 BTLs but going onto partner's deeds.

Postby maths » Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:22 pm

If you are added to the legal title of your partner's property which is then, for example, owned beneficially 50/50 you will need the mortgagee's permission which, if forthcoming, will require you to be added to the mortgage.

In this case, the 3% SDLT charge will apply to deemed consideration of 50% of outstanding mortgage.

If instead your partner simply declares that he alone continues to hold the legal title but now holds it for you and him beneficially 50/50 and you do not take on any part of the mortgage then no SDLT charge (in this case partner is effectively gifting you a 50% interest).

Hans76
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:49 pm

Re: SDLT query - own 2 BTLs but going onto partner's deeds.

Postby Hans76 » Thu Feb 09, 2017 6:55 pm

Thanks for the help Maths.

So if we were to do the latter, that would satisfy the Stamp Office that we were replacing OUR main residence and therefore not be stung with the extra surcharge when the existing main residence was sold and replaced with a new one..? It'd save me in the region of 10.5k on the new purchase and I wouldn't have paid to go on the old mortgage. Win win?


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