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Where Taxpayers and Advisers Meet

MARD Issued by HMRC on behave of EU State

stevevalo
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon May 21, 2012 7:51 am

MARD Issued by HMRC on behave of EU State

Postby stevevalo » Mon May 21, 2012 8:02 am

I have just received a 'Mutual Assistance In the Recovery of Debt (MARD)' from HMRC on behave of the Germany TAX authorities.

This is for year 2003 & 2004, so there is the debt ~25K and interest on ~15K. However there is no information showing how the debt is calculated.

If I have not paid something I own then I will accept this, however I would like to see how the figures add up, I would also like to dispute the amount of interest they have added.

Where should I start with advice or help on this?

mullet
Posts: 3242
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:26 am

Re: MARD Issued by HMRC on behave of EU State

Postby mullet » Tue May 22, 2012 8:11 pm

Where should I start with advice or help on this?
The German tax authorities? If that is where the debt originated (and is merely being pursued by HMRC in the UK) then that is the only place to start methinks.

Generix
Posts: 2532
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2008 3:41 pm

Re: MARD Issued by HMRC on behave of EU State

Postby Generix » Wed May 23, 2012 12:35 pm

Where should I start with advice or help on this?
The German tax authorities? If that is where the debt originated (and is merely being pursued by HMRC in the UK) then that is the only place to start methinks.
Have any details been disclosed as to which type of tax it related to? Are you aware of any tax liabilities already paid etc/ or activities undertaken in Germany, or is this completely unexpected and out of the blue?
Do you adore to transfer your artistic and inventive qualities to renovate a part type? Perhaps your friends who tour your sanctuary head remarks about want they could levy you to change their premises.

wamstax
Posts: 1863
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2008 3:39 pm
Location: Operate Nationally but based in Aberdeen
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Re: MARD Issued by HMRC on behave of EU State

Postby wamstax » Thu May 24, 2012 1:06 pm

If you do not agree with the tax charge thenthe only way you will get matters resolved is to advise HMRC in the UK that you do not agree with the charge and this will result in it being referred back to the tax authorities in Germany to deal with your appeal.

If this was PAYE tax e.g. contractor working in Germany with some salary on payroll and other amounts by loans or "off record" then you should also consider what is happening to other employees who were with the same employer and why if it was that tax was not deducted why have the German authorities not gon after the paymaster.

Suggest you contact a tax specialist if you are in any doubt as unless you appeal and have the matter referred back to the Germans then HMRC could end up taking legal proceedings.

Of course you should have dealt with it previously given that it relates to over 8 years ago and you would need to ensure that your rights are maintained throughout. Of course given the timescale there might just be a suspicion that you have been ducking and diving and trying to "evade" or "avoid" your tax liabilities by fleeign the country before they caught up with you..... LOL
regards and hope that this helps
bill@wamstaxltd.com
www.wamstaxltd.com
regards and hope this helps
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and email and phone contact can be obtained from website

catering
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2012 7:58 pm

Re: MARD Issued by HMRC on behave of EU State

Postby catering » Sat Nov 03, 2012 8:09 pm

6 years ago i was a contractor and worked in germany for 5 months ( although with leave i only actually worked just over 4 months ).
I had a uk limited company and the money was pad into that. I flew home every weekend and stayed in hotels during the week.

Now, 6 years later, i have just received a letter from the German Tax authorities saying they are instigating legal proceedings against me ! Ive been at the same address for 8 years and this is the first correspondence I've received from them.

Ive searched online and people have been receiving these letters for years. It also appears that anyone who tries to deal with these people always loose.

I personally do not believe i should pay the german government as i had already paid the uk one. My residency never changed and i was there less than 183 days.

Should i ignore this letter ?
Contact them and fight ?
Wait for the MARD and tell the HMRC to refund the money i paid them to the germans ?

Any advice ?

Darrenrhea
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2015 3:13 am

Re: MARD Issued by HMRC on behave of EU State

Postby Darrenrhea » Wed Nov 25, 2015 3:31 am

Any update feedback on this matter?

I did a contract in Germany back in 2005 to 2007
German tax authorities suspect that I have evaded tax as they have the payment info from the German company to UK agents.

I have declared and paid taxes in Germany to the funds received. They suspect that I had received additional funds and for that I did not pay taxes.

Assessments were sent to my German accountant and she failed to notify me. Later in the year back in 2012 I received a letter from German tax authorities demanding payment in the UK.

I appointed a lawyer in Germany and they explained this to the tax authorities and they failed to accept. Then we went to the German tax court and the judge is requesting to withdraw the claim.

Here is what the lawyer says

I called the judge at the financial court last week and talked with him about your case.
The judge told us, that he sees no chance to accept the application for restitution in integrum. According to his view this was a typical mistake of your tax consultant.

In case that the court won`t accept the application for restitution in integrum there won`t be a decision in the main question. This means there won`t be a decision if you received the extra payments or not.

But in case that the court does not accept the application this also means that the tax assessments become final and you would have to pay the taxes.

The judge advised us to withdraw the claim. To withdraw the claim means also the assessments become final, but you would have to pay just half of the court fees.

Today the court will talk about your case again and we can call the judge to talk with him about the next steps.
The judge offered that he could confirm why the application for restitution in integrum will not be accepted to give you the chance to assert claims for damages against your former tax consultant. In general there is the possibility to claim against Your tax consultant because she made a mistake. If you want to claim against Tax consultant we would recommend a specialised colleague. But there are some risks in such a process. We don`t know if a damage can be proved at a civil court. Even if a civil court would accept such a claim for damages we don`t know what amount of damage they will accept.

Not least there is the risk that Tax consultant could perhaps not be able to pay for the damages.
I will try to call the tax consultant to ask if she informed her professional insurance about your case. In case she did we could try to deal with the insurance about a payment of your taxes in part.

Now the lawyer says once we withdraw the case the german tax authority will recover the money through MARD.

I have been unemployed and only working part time these days. How would they recover.

Thanks, please advise

maths
Posts: 7535
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2008 3:25 pm

Re: MARD Issued by HMRC on behave of EU State

Postby maths » Wed Nov 25, 2015 3:54 pm

This is a bit of a mind blowing area, as indeed everything which Involves the EU seems to be.

I assume that the relevant Directive is 2010/24/EU dated 16 March 2010 relating to mutual assistance for recovery of tax claims.

There are time limits invoked and given the time span indicated it might be worth having a look at Article 18 "Limits to the requested authority’s obligations" as a starter.

maths
Posts: 7535
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2008 3:25 pm

Re: MARD Issued by HMRC on behave of EU State

Postby maths » Wed Nov 25, 2015 4:03 pm

Just noticed the dates on the postings. Doh !!

I was responding to the initial query which i can now see was raised back in May 2012, not the most recent posting (although it may still be relevant).

Re the latest posting did the German tax authorities seek to use the Directive for enforcement or did they simply write directly to you?

Darrenrhea
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2015 3:13 am

Re: MARD Issued by HMRC on behave of EU State

Postby Darrenrhea » Fri Nov 27, 2015 8:30 am

Thanks for the response.
They wrote directly to me and demanding payment, so I contacted the tax accountant.

Initially, the tax accountant wrote to me saying, she did receive many letters and she tried to contact me but unable to reach me. This was not correct.

Then I appointed a lawyer, the tax accountant then gave a statement saying, she was sick and she failed to forward the documents to me.

maths
Posts: 7535
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2008 3:25 pm

Re: MARD Issued by HMRC on behave of EU State

Postby maths » Fri Nov 27, 2015 2:54 pm

Unfortunately this forum is not really appropriate for a query such as yours which appears to be heavily fact dependent, not one of principle.

Suing a German tax advisor from the UK is likely to be costly and messy and in the end even if you win she may refuse to pay which means more legal recovery procedures designed to effect actual recovery.

If you do not pay the German authority, then their only way forward is to invoke MARD as a last resort. If used then effectively the UK tax authority on behalf of the German authorities will seek to collect the tax from you in the normal manner as in the UK (seize assets; bankrupt you etc) or possibly agree a repayment schedule. Or the German's may write the debt off as not worth their efforts.

I would have thought your German lawyer could seek to find a compromise in the amount due by talking to the tax authorities.

How much tax is at stake?


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