This site uses cookies. By continuing to browse the site you are agreeing to our use of cookies. To find out more about cookies on this website and how to delete cookies, see our Cookie Policy.
Analytics

Tools which collect anonymous data to enable us to see how visitors use our site and how it performs. We use this to improve our products, services and user experience.

Essential

Tools that enable essential services and functionality, including identity verification, service continuity and site security.

Where Taxpayers and Advisers Meet

how can I see what savings interest figures HMRC holds for me

sleepycat
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:02 pm

how can I see what savings interest figures HMRC holds for me

Postby sleepycat » Sun Feb 17, 2019 9:13 pm

I have just received a tax calculation from HMRC for the year 2017-18 telling me I underpaid tax because of the amount of savings interest HMRC believes I earned. As a consequence they have sent me a revised tax code to for the remainder of this tax year 18-19 to collect the unpaid tax.Iin the 2017-18 tax calculation they have stated an amount of interest that they believe I have earned which bears no resemblance to the amount of savings interest I did in fact earn. I have 2 questions I hope someone can help me with. 1. Where can I find out which figures HMRC is basing this amount of interest on? [other than trying to telephone them and getting put on hold for an hour and then finally getting to speak to someone who is unable to help me] 2. Once I get HMRCs figures and compare them to my own records how do I go about contacting HMRC to put this right?

Thanks

Sleepycat

D&C
Posts: 61
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:04 pm

Re: how can I see what savings interest figures HMRC holds for me

Postby D&C » Sun Feb 17, 2019 11:13 pm

1. You can usually see the individual account information on your Personal Tax Account on gov.uk

2. Letter (or phone call) clearly outlining the correct information should suffice. You may be able to send a message from your Personal Tax Account but I haven't tried that myself.
As a consequence they have sent me a revised tax code to for the remainder of this tax year 18-19 to collect the unpaid tax
I think you may have misunderstood the revised tax code.

It would be quite unusual for your 2018:19 tax code to include the tax due for 2017:18.

What has probably happened is that your 2018:19 tax code has been amended for two reasons, one to include or update any deduction for untaxed interest. And secondly to include an extra deduction so that the tax (provisionally) owed for 2018:19 starts to be collected.

The actual tax owed for 2017:18 would normally be collected by a deduction in your 2019:20 tax code.

pawncob
Posts: 4352
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:06 pm
Location: West Sussex

Re: how can I see what savings interest figures HMRC holds for me

Postby pawncob » Mon Feb 18, 2019 1:01 pm

The figures HMRC use are based on historic info. updated at a whim by whichever disgruntled employee/computer looks at them. They rarely reduce them until you submit a tax return and insist on a correction.
With a pinch of salt take what I say, but don't exceed your RDA

sleepycat
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:02 pm

Re: how can I see what savings interest figures HMRC holds for me

Postby sleepycat » Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:05 am

Thank you both for the helpful replies.

If I could come back to you D&C, I note what you say however perhaps you can shed some light on what I have received from HMRC.

I got 2 letters both dated 30 January. The first has the heading "Tax calculation for the year 6 April 2017 to 5 April 2018. You have paid too little tax. You owe HMRC X amount." The second has the heading "This is to tell you your tax code for 6 April 2018 to 5 April 2019". The tax code change for the 18-19 tax year will only apply to the last 2 months [Feb and March] to cover an amount of tax they estimate that I owe this financial year - however the change in the code will take far more out of my PAYE payments than they need to cover the amount of unpaid tax they have stated I owe.

I am completely baffled by all of this and am confused and struggling to work out how to address it. The only saving grace is that I keep good financial records which I hope will help me.

Sleepycat

robbob
Posts: 2827
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:01 pm

Re: how can I see what savings interest figures HMRC holds for me

Postby robbob » Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:59 am

Hello sleeypcat

D&C raises a good point but under dynamic coding i think hmrc are processing more adjustments in the following year than they used to so i wouldn't presume that 17/18 tax is not be collected now.

I would recommend ringing hmrc and speaking to an advisor and asking them to confirm the numbers if its not clear from looking at the 18/19 code if thats collecting 17/18 tax.

Also give them the correct figures ye 5/4/18 and ask them to adjust first then see how that flows through to coding, if unsure why coding adjusts are there ask for clarification. Give them an expected ye 5/4/19 interest received figure too


Ref coding adjusts is all down the techinical nitty gritty of whether the adjustments this year are

(1) for actual underpaid tax from ye 5/4/18 as per ye 5/4/2018 tax calculation issued.
(2) for estimated interest received current year so that code this year does its job
(3) an extra adjustment to your code to collect for (1) or (2) or (1) and (2) based on the fact that your code for the earlier part for this year was not previously collecting the taxz.

Unless you know for certain its 1 in your tax code ye 5/4/2019 it may be that you may still owe the tax come the year end for that prior year, even if 1 (and 3) is in your tax code its stil possible you may run short again this year if any dynamic coding adjustment messes up - they are prone to mess up. Potentially though you are paying two years tax two months !!!

To add insult to injury hmrc have recently been having issues for sa clients where incorrect underpaid amounts have appeared in the ye tax calcs - not sure if this has stretched to paye or not.

In some respects if you can nip it in the bud lowering interest received total the problem will mitigate the issue.
however the change in the code will take far more out of my PAYE payments than they need to cover the amount of unpaid tax they have stated I owe.
This is to be expected under dynamic coding if they are also adjusting for similar issues this tax year too.

Note you may need to speak to more than one advisor to get a ninja one but generally most of them should be able to hopefully revise interest figures presuming they are "generic estimates" and get back to where you should be in that you understand your code.

In summary pick up the phone and hmrc will hopefully enlighten you.

D&C
Posts: 61
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:04 pm

Re: how can I see what savings interest figures HMRC holds for me

Postby D&C » Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:58 pm

however the change in the code will take far more out of my PAYE payments than they need to cover the amount of unpaid tax they have stated I owe.
Is the tax code to be used on an emergency basis (also known as non cumulative or week1/month1)? This means the code is only used against each payment from now on without looking back at what you have been paid earlier on the same tax year.

And nothing you have posted gives any indication that your 2018:19 tax code is collecting any of the tax owed for 2017:18.

Have you received a tax code for 2019:20 yet?

sleepycat
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:02 pm

Re: how can I see what savings interest figures HMRC holds for me

Postby sleepycat » Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:23 pm

Dear Robbob and D+C


Thank you both for your detailed advice. I wish I could understand all of it which is a big part of my problem.
I hear what you are saying about telephoning them but I have difficulty processing information orally and can only really take in information in writing - not sure HMRC new arrangements are geared to help someone in my situation.


The position is further complicated by the fact that today they have sent me a quite aggressive letter demanding that I pay the unpaid tax for the 17-18 year by 29 March. I was acting in reliance upon the notes attached to the P800 they had sent me which stated that if you had underpaid tax , as I have, that I didn't need to do anything and that they would collect the tax owed in the tax code. I had thought that would buy me sufficient time to do whatever checking I needed and get back to them to sort out exactly how much would need to be coded out to collect the unpaid tax.

In today's letter they say they cannot collect the underpaid tax by reducing my tax code and give 3 reasons why - none of which are valid in my case.

1. there is no PAYE source to collect the underpayment against - yes, there is, and there is sufficient each month to code out a payment which would cover the unpaid tax each month

2. Inclusion of the underpayment in the tax code would more than double the tax we would deduct under PAYE [not really sure what that means - but if it means there would still be sufficient each month to code out a payment which would cover the unpaid tax each month and leave me sufficient PAYe income, then there would be]

3. Inclusion of the underpayment in the tax code would result in more than half the salary income being deducted as tax - definitely not the case.


To my mind as I dispute these assertions they do not have a case for insisting I pay a disputed figure in full by 29 March

How can I write to someone to open up a dialogue which I for health reasons can only conduct in writing in order to resolve this?

D&C
Posts: 61
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:04 pm

Re: how can I see what savings interest figures HMRC holds for me

Postby D&C » Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:56 am

Have you received a tax code for 2019:20 yet?

If so can you post the details of how it is made up and how much you expect to receive in taxable income in 2019:20 from this company who will be using the tax code i.e. the figure which would go on your P60.

Given what you say about telephoning HMRC then I would think using your Personal Tax Account would be even more relevant to you.

Have you checked this yet to see if you can look at details of the interest used in your P800 calculation?

Also, just how much difference is there between the interest amount you believe to be correct for 2017:18 and the amount on the P800?

And what tax rate are you being taxed at on your interest, this should be 0%, 20% or 40%.

sleepycat
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:02 pm

Re: how can I see what savings interest figures HMRC holds for me

Postby sleepycat » Mon Mar 11, 2019 3:58 pm

D&C - thank you for your reply

Firstly I did try to use the Personal Tax Account online - it wasn't easy and contrary to what I expected it contained simply the grossly distorted figure of untaxed interest which appears on my P800 - so no further forward - no indication of the institutions the interest accrued with or how much or when they think I received it. The other downside is that I could post messages on the site but they say it will take 15 working days to reply so the deadline by which I am supposed to make the payment they are asking for which I am disputing will have expired and then they are threatening me with self assessment and fines and or interest etc etc etc.

One thing which it did say was that no unpaid tax was owed for the 2016-17 tax year. This flashed a lightbulb.

I went through my own records and when I added up the untaxed interest for the 17-18 year and then when I lookd at interest received in the 16-17 tax year and added those two totals together it magically produced the exact figure they have cited in the P800, but there they pass all of it off as having been received in the 17-18 tax year. This begs me to question, are they allowed to do that? By doing that they are depriving me of the 16-17 tax year's PSA to offest against any untaxed interest earned in that year, if the PSA applied in that tax year. Likewise the starting rate for savings if it applied in the 16-17 year. Both of those would have substantially reduced the amount of untaxed interest I could legally be expected to pay income tax on [basic rate]. In a nutshell, instead of me being allocated the PSA and SR for Savings to the untaxed interest earned in 16-17 and then PSA and SR for savings being allocated again to untaxed interest earned in 17-18, they have lumped 2 year's worth of interest into a single tax year and only applied one PSA and SR for savings to it. This does not seem very fair.

HMRC was to my mind very slow out of the blocks in putting together guidance and a process for how the PSA was going to work after it was announced in 2016. They wrote to me and said I didn't have to do anything and that they would write again - that was in December 2017. I heard nothing from them after that until February this year. That being the case it does not behove HMRC to start bundling 2 years worth of income together in order to get themselves out of the hole they dug for themselves.

Can anyone advise what I should do, given my difficulties with dealing with anything of any complexity via a teklephone call and the time limit they have set me?

robbob
Posts: 2827
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:01 pm

Re: how can I see what savings interest figures HMRC holds for me

Postby robbob » Mon Mar 11, 2019 5:53 pm

Firstly I did try to use the Personal Tax Account online - it wasn't easy and contrary to what I expected it contained simply the grossly distorted figure of untaxed interest which appears on my P800 - so no further forward - no indication of the institutions the interest accrued with or how much or when they think I received it. The other downside is that I could post messages on the site but they say it will take 15 working days to reply so the deadline by which I am supposed to make the payment they are asking for which I am disputing will have expired and then they are threatening me with self assessment and fines and or interest etc etc etc.
I would recommend calling hmrc and advising the correct interest received figure for each tax year - this should pretty much make the problem go away if there is no material (or any?) interest received amount. At present i would expect figure to be hmrc guesstimate that they are waiting for you to advise them is wrong. from what you have posted it looks like they have doubled the total in error. Each tax year total should only appear on that tax years p800.

If there continues to be amounts in your tax code going forward compare and ring them asap if the end of year total is different from what was adjusted in your code.

Note you say its hard to sort via phone however communicating a confirmed total for each year by phone to me is by far the easiest way you may be able to get this sorted in any reasonable time period.Then ask them about refusal to code out too and hopefully they can ask relevant questions in that regard.


Return to “Savings & Investments, Pensions & Retirement”