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Where Taxpayers and Advisers Meet

Making Tax Digital

etf
Posts:852
Joined:Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:25 pm
Re: Making Tax Digital

Postby etf » Mon Feb 14, 2022 1:47 pm

Great feedback!

By North East Accountant
14th Feb 2022 11:52
No. 7 -The benefits of Making Tax Digital to those with simple tax affairs are not clear...........this is not surprising because there are none.

etf
Posts:852
Joined:Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:25 pm

Re: Making Tax Digital

Postby etf » Wed Mar 16, 2022 10:16 am

It will be interesting to see whether HMRC's Stratford KGB office deny the following FOI request from this accountingweb thread. Even money in my mythical betting shop.

I made an FOI request (Ref: FOI2022/11404) as set out below. It will be interesting to get the answers in the second week of April

Dear FOI Team

In an article on accountingweb on March 14, the Financial Secretary to the Treasury, stated that “We know that errors are thirteen times more likely to lead to too little tax being paid than too much being paid”

The context of that statement indicates that this is a finding from research prior to the analysis of VAT returns.. I have a number of questions.

Q1) Please advise when this research was carried out

Q2) Please advise on the size of the sample that was taken and the size of the sample investigated in detail once unsuitable entries were weeded out

Q3) Please advise whether the scope of the research covered both individuals and businesses

Q4) Please advise whether on the range of businesses investigated

Q5) Please advise on which taxes were found to be under-collected

Q6) Please provide the report or a link to the report which sets out the methodology; analysis and findings of the research.

etf
Posts:852
Joined:Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:25 pm

Re: Making Tax Digital

Postby etf » Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:32 am

By tedbuck
04th Jul 2022 13:31
Lunatics in charge of the asylum.

This is just like Putin in Ukraine - we know it won't work and it is costing barrel loads of money but we will carry on as we don't want to lose face and admit we were wrong. It doesn't matter how much destruction it causes or how many people are stressed out or forced to spend money unnecessarily because HMRC are never wrong.

I don't think I have ever seen such stupidity and arrogant contempt for the people who have to pay their salaries and who will have to fork up for this nonsense. The kick-backs from the software people must be huge. I suppose that HMG members and HMRC members must have a few shares in the software companies. Sounds highly dodgy to me. Are there Oligarchs in HMRC? Perhaps they'll change its name to KGB at least it would be more honest and think of all the ink it would save.

I cannot remember being so disgusted with a government (?) department.

etf
Posts:852
Joined:Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:25 pm

Re: Making Tax Digital

Postby etf » Mon Jul 11, 2022 4:04 pm

A reader response with oodles of common sense:

By kevinringer
11th Jul 2022 12:08
Tornado, you are spot on. It's because HMRC have lost sight of their purpose: to collect tax. SA was designed when HMRC had local offices where the officers had regular contact with taxpayers and agents. In those days, HMRC carried out regular SA and VAT inspections so HMRC had a good understanding of how businesses worked and what HMRC could reasonably expect from the self-employed in terms of record keeping etc. For example, SA required the self-employed to keep mileage logs but HMRC staff knew this was unreasonable and were happy to work with the reasonable estimates we calculated. Jump to today and there are no local offices and HMRC no longer carries out in-person SA or VAT inspections, as a result HMRC have lost contact with their "customers" (that label itself demonstrates how far adrift HMRC are). As a result, HMRC have no idea what their "customers" are capable and incapable of, and what reasonable demands can be made on them. HMRC have had their ears tickled by the software industry who are taking the lead on this. IT is only the means of delivery, not the tax system itself. Having the media-of-delivery people lead will only cause problems. SA was initially paper based. Just image what SA would have looked like if it was led by the media-of-delivery people (ie, the printers) instead of tax people: we'd be buried in forms. That's what's happened with MTD: we've been buried in the digital equivalent. HMRC needs to re-focus on their core purpose: to collect tax. If the SA system is working properly it should collect the same tax as MTD. As HMRC already have the tools to achieve that, HMRC should use those tools. There's no need to create this square-wheel MTD regime.

etf
Posts:852
Joined:Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:25 pm

Re: Making Tax Digital

Postby etf » Mon Aug 08, 2022 9:43 am

Wonder whether there was somone previously in post who thought shit I don't like where this is heading. Having tried to access the job spec and met with the message at the bottom perhaps Liz Truss has intervened and told Jim his ship is going to sink as soon as she is PM .

By Mr Hankey
05th Aug 2022 15:11
The deputy director job for Making Tax Digital is currently vacant, if anyone fancies applying you can view the details here:

https://www.civilservicejobs.service.gov.uk/csr/index.cgi?SID=b3duZXJ0eX...

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Replying to Mr Hankey:
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By MCV71
05th Aug 2022 17:53
So the ship is even more rudderless than we thought!



Cannot view job
This job has closed or been withdrawn

etf
Posts:852
Joined:Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:25 pm

Re: Making Tax Digital

Postby etf » Fri Aug 12, 2022 10:41 am

More negative feedback for Jim Harra's MTD for IT.

By kevinringer
10th Aug 2022 10:10
The short answer is we accountants do not have the capacity to digitise our clients records, nor to correct the digital records prepared by our clients (which can take longer than scrapping our client's attempts and starting again from scratch). Our job is to prepare accounts and Tax Returns, it is not to teach our clients how to use a computer or how to become bookkeepers. We all know it takes years of experience to become a bookkeeper, so how can we teach our entire client base? Add to this the huge number of experienced accountants that are retiring by 2024 because of MTD (I know several personally) will increase the shortage of accountants further.

The only way we could cope with the workload is to (1) switch to monthly bookkeeping for all clients and (2) hire staff now to get them trained up. But if we hire staff now, who is going to pay for them? Given the massive financial pressures on clients as a result of Brexit/Covid/Inflation/Energy costs, clients can't afford the extra costs. And in any case, HMRC have kicked the MTD-can down the road so many times and the complete lack of detail and disastrous pilot (only 8 participants after 5 years), I can't see how MTD can go live in 2024. So who is going to risk training more staff when they might not be needed in 2024?

And what is the point of MTD? We warned HMRC it would increase error and sure enough, the VAT gap increased the first year of MTD VAT. All that cost for less tax. Maybe the increase in the tax gap is the "saving" that HMRC said "customers" would benefit from as a result of MTD? Silly me, I had thought HMRC had been arguing the cost of the software and time was the saving. No, it's because everyone will be paying less tax because the software allows them to put all their personal expenses against the business and claim VAT on everything including wages, drawings and the VAT payment itself. HMRC don't seem to mind at all and accept any rubbish as long as it is digital rubbish.


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