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Where Taxpayers and Advisers Meet

Problems registering for online assessment

abidemi
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2012 6:12 pm

Problems registering for online assessment

Postby abidemi » Thu Apr 30, 2020 10:40 am

Oh dear! As I posted previously, my husband has been requested by HMRC to submit his tax returns online instead of submitting paper forms, which we have submitted for the past twenty years. We have followed the links given in the letter he received from them and it took us to Registering for self assessment and getting a tax return. Even though we did question whether the form we were filling was correct, it seemed to be the only appropriate one and did, in fact, include the UTR. Having submitted the form we have received an email from HMRC saying they cannot process the application as he already has a live self assessment record with a UTR. We know that! However the links they provide do not lead us to any appropriate online registration form! Can someone please advise before we have to call HMRC?

etf
Posts: 686
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:25 pm

Re: Problems registering for online assessment

Postby etf » Thu Apr 30, 2020 1:11 pm

I found the following on the gov.uk website which may act as a checklist for you to see where the process is breaking down.

I must admit I find all this stuff bewildering and so others may be able to provide you with clearer advice.

https://www.gov.uk/log-in-file-self-assessment-tax-return

If you’re filing online for the first time
You must have received your Unique Taxpayer Reference (UTR), enrolled for the online service and activated your account using the code you received in the post.

How you do those things depends on whether you’re:

self-employed
not self-employed
a business partner or partnership
Sign in to file your tax return
You’ll need to prove your identity using Government Gateway or GOV.UK Verify.

abidemi
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2012 6:12 pm

Re: Problems registering for online assessment

Postby abidemi » Thu Apr 30, 2020 3:18 pm

I found the following on the gov.uk website which may act as a checklist for you to see where the process is breaking down.

I must admit I find all this stuff bewildering and so others may be able to provide you with clearer advice.

https://www.gov.uk/log-in-file-self-assessment-tax-return

If you’re filing online for the first time
You must have received your Unique Taxpayer Reference (UTR), enrolled for the online service and activated your account using the code you received in the post.

How you do those things depends on whether you’re:

self-employed
not self-employed
a business partner or partnership
Sign in to file your tax return
You’ll need to prove your identity using Government Gateway or GOV.UK Verify.
Thanks for replying! It does appear that he is going to have to go through GOV.UK Verify, not something we feel too comfortable doing but, without a direct link to a form to register for online self assessment if you already have been submitting paper forms, there may not be any other option.

maths
Posts: 8000
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2008 3:25 pm

Re: Problems registering for online assessment

Postby maths » Thu Apr 30, 2020 4:37 pm

"Registering for Self Assessment and getting a tax return" can be done on Form SA1.

Google Form SA1 and you should then have a form to complete and lodge with HMRC.

abidemi
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2012 6:12 pm

Re: Problems registering for online assessment

Postby abidemi » Thu Apr 30, 2020 5:00 pm

"Registering for Self Assessment and getting a tax return" can be done on Form SA1.

Google Form SA1 and you should then have a form to complete and lodge with HMRC.
Yes, that is exactly what we did! That is the form we used and it was rejected saying he already had a self assessment record and UTR. I wonder if the person in HMRC got it wrong? After all, the form does include a box for the UTR thus suggesting that, even if you have already been submitting self assessments, you can still use this form to register for online self assessment. I think we will try again in a few days, using the same form and see if we have better luck.

robbob
Posts: 2984
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:01 pm

Re: Problems registering for online assessment

Postby robbob » Thu Apr 30, 2020 5:54 pm

You should not be doing any forms to register for sefl assessment if you are already in self assessment. So presuming self assessments are already in the mix (being issued) then don't do sa1 or online registration for sole trader or online registration for self assessment.

To submit your tax return online when you are already within self assessmnet you need to link up you existing `self assessment record" to your government gateway or personal tax account that exists. If you dont have either a perosnla tax account of governmrnt gateway OR it doesnt let you add perosnal tax to your governmnet gateway.

Here is the link to sign up to your perosnal tax account which i am guesing is what needs to be done here.
https://www.gov.uk/personal-tax-account

The final fly in the mointment is that some webrowsers and hmrc don't get along yet - if you are following the link to signup and it is trying to sign you in then try a different browser / try private mode or try cleaning all your cookies (not your cookie jar cookies !) - or ring the on;line services helpdesk - when i say ring webchat is probably the best plan if there are any issues.
Once setup then you may need to still link up the self assessment record.
Thanks for replying! It does appear that he is going to have to go through GOV.UK Verify, not something we feel too comfortable doing but, without a direct link to a form to register for online self assessment if you already have been submitting paper forms, there may not be any other option.
everything is being moved over to the direct gov website nowadays - so i think you will have to follow whatever needs to be done in that rgeard - i do know a few bods who managed to getb their whole perosnal tax accoiunt up and runnig with ability to view all years stamp contributions in less than half an hour - so when it does work there is some nifty stuff there :)

abidemi
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2012 6:12 pm

Re: Problems registering for online assessment

Postby abidemi » Thu Apr 30, 2020 6:26 pm

You should not be doing any forms to register for sefl assessment if you are already in self assessment. So presuming self assessments are already in the mix (being issued) then don't do sa1 or online registration for sole trader or online registration for self assessment.

To submit your tax return online when you are already within self assessmnet you need to link up you existing `self assessment record" to your government gateway or personal tax account that exists. If you dont have either a perosnla tax account of governmrnt gateway OR it doesnt let you add perosnal tax to your governmnet gateway.

Here is the link to sign up to your perosnal tax account which i am guesing is what needs to be done here.
https://www.gov.uk/personal-tax-account

The final fly in the mointment is that some webrowsers and hmrc don't get along yet - if you are following the link to signup and it is trying to sign you in then try a different browser / try private mode or try cleaning all your cookies (not your cookie jar cookies !) - or ring the on;line services helpdesk - when i say ring webchat is probably the best plan if there are any issues.
Once setup then you may need to still link up the self assessment record.

Thanks! I am lost! But I did follow the link you sent to sign up to his personal tax account. You either need 1. a Gateway ID (doesn’t have that) or 2. GOV.UK.verify (doesn’t have that but that would appear to be the only way to go) or 3. you can create an account. So we went with 3. and to get a Gateway ID you have to submit details of valid UK passport. He does not have a UK passport, as he has permanent residence but not citizenship, or a drivers licence (doesn’t have one) so, it does appear he has no choice but to go through the GOV.UK Verify process to be able to submit his self assessment online. Otherwise we will have to try web chat or phone again but I doubt we will get through because HMRC are inundated with calls related to Covid.Even the link if one proceeds with trying to get a Gateway ID leads to Covid information!
Thanks for replying! It does appear that he is going to have to go through GOV.UK Verify, not something we feel too comfortable doing but, without a direct link to a form to register for online self assessment if you already have been submitting paper forms, there may not be any other option.
everything is being moved over to the direct gov website nowadays - so i think you will have to follow whatever needs to be done in that rgeard - i do know a few bods who managed to getb their whole perosnal tax accoiunt up and runnig with ability to view all years stamp contributions in less than half an hour - so when it does work there is some nifty stuff there :)

abidemi
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2012 6:12 pm

Re: Problems registering for online assessment

Postby abidemi » Thu Apr 30, 2020 6:42 pm

Hardly surprising that I cannot understand how to set up online self assessment when I cannot even post a reply properly on this forum! So copying it here rather than in the middle of your post, robbob.

Thanks! I am lost! But I did follow the link you sent to sign up to his personal tax account. You either need 1. a Gateway ID (doesn’t have that) or 2. GOV.UK.verify (doesn’t have that but that would appear to be the only way to go) or 3. you can create an account. So we went with 3. and to get a Gateway ID you have to submit details of valid UK passport. He does not have a UK passport, as he has permanent residence but not citizenship, or a drivers licence (doesn’t have one) so, it does appear he has no choice but to go through the GOV.UK Verify process to be able to submit his self assessment online. Otherwise we will have to try web chat or phone again but I doubt we will get through because HMRC are inundated with calls related to Covid.Even the link if one proceeds with trying to get a Gateway ID leads to Covid information!

etf
Posts: 686
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:25 pm

Re: Problems registering for online assessment

Postby etf » Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:48 pm

I've been reading HMRC's own forum (not sure you are allowed to mention it here) and it appears from questions raised that on occasion getting past the Verify process can be problematic. The following response from HMRC made me laugh:

If you are unable to access your online account via either method then you will need to file a paper return.



Thank you for your question.


I think that completes the circle :D

abidemi
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2012 6:12 pm

Re: Problems registering for online assessment

Postby abidemi » Thu Apr 30, 2020 9:25 pm

Yes, I have read that it can be problematic to register using the Verify route! I anticipate problems but that appears to be the only option.My husband does not have a British passport so that might be the first stumbling block. I managed to get onto HMRC webchat and was given the advice that robbob gave me .....that my husband has to set up a personal tax account and that, of course, involves using the Verify route. We may well indeed have to submit paper returns after all and it could, as you say, complete the circle!


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