HMRC-is it time to call the Army in?

[etf]

More tax return examples of HMRC not doing what they should do:


Self assessment ''not captured''
Posted 6 months ago by wlk385

Dear Sir or Madam,

I've finally managed to get hold of the HMRC SA helpline with respect to the following query, where you asked me to contact SA team (https://community.hmrc.gov.uk/customerforums/sa/63a9263f-0695-ee11-a81c-000d3a0d1e21).

I've learned that my SA, submitted and received on 26 November 2023 (!!!), per my online HMRC account, was ''not captured'' by the system, meaning that HMRC does not see it as submitted at all (!!!). I was also told that according to the internal guidance, SA team member on the line can't do anything and can only pass the case to the internal team, who will respond in April, at the earliest (!!!)

Putting aside the fact I will likely by (wrongly) charged a late filling penalty and that HMRC is due to refund an overpaid tax to me (not insignificant £3,5k) - in what world can one submit (and receive a receipt confirmation) and still wait half a year for HMRC to graciously take interest in my tax affairs??? This is so wrong on so many levels, including, also, that SA team member on the line could not explain to me why the filling was ''not captured''. What's the point???
Posted 6 months ago by wlk385

Can anyone at HMRC here respond, please? This is getting beyond frustrating.
Posted 6 months ago by

Same problem here. This is the first time I've managed to find someone with the same issue.

26th Oct: Submitted with registered accounting software, confirmation by IR Mark number
24th Nov: I contacted by phone. They said they would 'push for capture' immediately and my balance will show the next day
30th Nov: Contacted by phone again. Told there was a problem and I will receive a response by 2nd of Jan
5th Jan: Contacted by phone again. It still hasn't been captured, and I will hear more by April

On every call there was a real lack of clarity and a bit of evasiveness in them even describing what the problem might be or saying sorry. On my last call I asked if I could receive a written letter saying I would be exempt from late penalties because it's their problem, and I was shockingly told that HMRC cannot write letters. When I put this to their (much quicker) Twitter/X help team I was told this was incorrect and they can indeed send such a letter.

The whole thing is a complete mess and although I'm not due a refund like yourself, I am worried about having to go through a lengthy appeal process when I have to dispute any fines and penalties I receive for both late submission AND late payment.

Let me know if you have anything you want to ask me.

@HMRC - Please help us get this sorted!
Posted 6 months ago by HMRC Admin 20

Hi wlk385,

I am sorry there was an issue capturing your online tax return. As advised when you contacted HMRC this wil be referred to a speacialist team to review and update the record. Once processed it will show the original filing date so late filing penalties will not apply. Once processed if you have overpaid this will show on your account and be available for repayment. I apologise in the delay in getting your tax return processed we currently have a backlog of claims which we have deployed extra resources to deal with.

Thank you.


Posted 5 months ago by

I have the same issue (SATR submitted but not captured) and thought I'd post in here as well, as I haven't found many people with the issue when searching but I assume there must be lots of others, given how long we're having to wait and there's a 'Capture Team'.

I'm also due a refund of £1,200 (less than you wlk385 but particularly in need of it at the moment due to a very protracted house sale!).

26 Oct 2023: Submitted via online account (3.5 months before the deadline). Also notice it's the same date as you wlk385, maybe something went wrong that day!
3 Nov 2023: Contacted via chat. They said they would refer the issue and I would hear by the 31 Jan 2024
16 Jan 2024: Contacted via chat to see if there was an update. They said they would chase and also confirmed I absolutely would not be charged a late filing penalty, which is good.
8 Feb 2024: Still nothing, so contacted via chat again (and was almost told off for contacting again). Was told "Your case is being reviewed by a specialist team We currently have a backlog of claims which we have deployed extra resources to deal with While the work is ongoing to clear these cases were are unable to progress chase your claim", similar to HMRC Admin 20's comments above (though, I note the apology from you HMRC Admin 20, which makes a nice change, as I've not had any sort of apology).

Why can you not give people a timeframe or some indication, e.g., the size of the backlog? I can only assume you think people would go mad. But I tell you what makes people go crazy: giving them absolutely no indication of how long they need to wait for something, where their issue is in a queue, etc. If you were more transparent with people, I think you'd receive a better reception.

As lm93 says, it's a complete mess and is really demoralising. It's also a terrible reward for submitting your tax return early, which is something you encourage. You were very quick to take my money when you (incorrectly) thought I owed you though.

Sigh.
Posted 4 months ago by Gabelle

Hi, same issue here, my accountant submitted my tax return in Jan, and as per their calculation I owe money but my HRMC account says I owe nothing. I called HRMC and was told my return has been "logged" but not "captured" and someone would call me back within 2 weeks: no one did.
In parallel my accountant spoke with an HRMC agent who said they need to go through the tax return and enter the figures onto their system (what does that mean, they do everything manually???) and then will issue out a new tax return, which "should fix everything." That still hasn't been done and they couldn't give a deadline.... what is happening???
Posted 4 months ago by HMRC Admin 25

Hi Gabelle,

We are hear of the delay capturing your return.

This usually occurs when there's an issue with the information provided on your return, which we need to verify on our systems, or contact you to clarify.

While we can't provide an individual timescale for an update, please continue to check your personal tax account for updates, or contact us by webchat or phone here:

Self Assessment: general enquiries

Thank you.


Posted 3 months ago by Paul Willis

Hello,

I would like to add them I'm in the same situation and that it's very stressful,

My accountant submitted my before the end of December and received an IR Mark as proof of receipt. After a few day sit showed as submitted on my account, but then the calculation never showed and my account didn't update. I called HMRC and they just told me they hadn't received my return and blamed me and my accountant for it. They said my agent should withdraw it and resubmit as they'd not submitted it properly. They weren't interested in the IR Mark which proves receipt of the tax return for some reason.

My SA was withdrawn then resubmitted on the 8th of Jan, I received an IR mark as proof of submission yet again. To this date my return does not even show that it has been submitted and still shows as LATE. I am receiving late penalty reminders and expect to move into the £10 per day fines at the end of this month.

My accountant called HMRC multiple times and was told that it needed to be fixed by their internal team and they cannot say when this will be due to a huge backlog. They did say not to worry about fines, but with no timescale and with penalty notices arriving in my mail it's not a very nice experience. If I call HMRC myself they just say they've not received my SA return, yet my accountant gets a different story entirely. This is very stressful.

I appealed my first fine and received a letter saying that I didn't state why I submitted my tax return late, which obviously I did. It also said they can't process my appeal as I haven't yet submitted my tax return. Absolute nonsense.

HMRC will owe me around £1,800 as a tax refund as I overpaid payments on account last year. Given that it's going to take many months to even have my SA processed, I'm looking at maybe 6 months, a year before I get my tax refund? What an absolute mess.

I
Posted 29 days ago by Gabelle

Hi, still no news, my account still mentions I owe nothing, my tax advisor is unable to reach out to anyone at HRMC, I am stunned by this situation. It's been 5 months!
Posted 25 days ago by HMRC Admin 25

Hi Gabelle,

We apoligise for the delay in your tax return being processed.

We currently have a back log of claims which we have deployed extra resources to deal with.

Once processed your online account will be updated.

Thank you.


Posted 10 days ago by wlk385

Given I started this thread I wanted to update all that follow this thread and/or in similar circumstances: I still haven’t heard from HMRC (i.e. 7 months after submitting the return) and made an official complaint in June. I’m determined to keep escalating complaints, due to truly shocking disservice by HMRC. The final straw was my most recent attempt at obtaining any information from HMRC, ended up with online advisor telling me to “calm down”.

[etf]

This service must be worth a Lordship!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Where are the regulators?


Self Assessment Refund delays and lack of communication
Posted 4 months ago by Brett Anderson

Back in January, I had a self assessment report put through for a refund of nearly £4000, and on setting up to review myself, sent a request for this to be credited to me directly back on 29th February as this had not been completed before.

I've tried on a number of occasions to get an update regarding this as the information provided informed me that it would be 2 weeks from the first refund request back on 23rd January, then to wait until 23rd March for a response, and just now on checking it tells me to wait until 7th April, because they are checking requests from 3rd of March - several days AFTER my last request.

I have tried multiple times to speak to and advisor over the phone, and my attempts to use the online chat have either failed due to an error with the bot, or I was told I was speaking to someone who handled technical issues with the site despite requesting to speak to someone specifically regarding refunds.

Can somebody please give some insight as to what is happening, when I should expect at least some form of communication, or even a confirmation that my request was received outside a reference number that doesn't seem to have anywhere to check it against?
Posted 4 months ago by Brett Anderson

Update - Spent over an hour on hold waiting to speak to an advisor just for a robot to tell me there's nobody available and just hang up. How on earth am I supposed to get any information when every avenue is simply shut down?
Posted 4 months ago by HMRC Admin 5

Hi



If you have still not received the repayment then you will need to contact HMRC to review this for you Self Assessment: general enquiries



Thank you


Posted 3 months ago by HMRC Admin 5

Hi Brett Anderson



I am sorry you were unable to speak to an adviser. There can also be the option to webchat.

When you go to the link Contact HMRC on the contact page there will be a link Ask HMRC online to webchat.



Thank you




Posted 3 months ago by jackjosh9

I really feel for you with the frustration of dealing with obtaining a repayment- I have been waiting since April last year - contacted for update and given its security checks and not allowed to contact until a certain date - waited nothing happened then contacted again and told with security checks wait until May before contacting them again - said I am not happy- told raise a complaint which I did - response we can not intervene with security checks so I have to wait until May before contact again it’s a tier 1 and raise complaint to tier 2 if not happy - what are we supposed to do this is a disgrace- I have now submitted self assessment for the new tax year and owed again an amount of money and that’s showing payment pending I am really struggling to think of a way out here - no contact given with new date when you have online chat and nothing happens- I am just totally lost and frustrated- good luck with issue

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Third wrongly sent letter saying I owe money
Posted about a month ago by jordanameliacarroll

Hi,

This is causing me an insane amounts of stress at this point. The first and second time was bad enough but after last being told I would definitely not be receiving anymore letters to do with this and an apology, I believed it was all sorted. I am at my wits end. Getting through to speak to anyone about this is torture which just makes the entire situation even more stressful and I already suffer with anxiety, which I have explained several times to the advisors any time I've spoken to them.

Previous two times I was told I had been late submitting a self assessment tax return - so I owed a lot of money. I have never in my life done a self assessment return, I didn't even know what one was before getting the first letter. After sorting it the first time I realised it was something to do with being self employed. I work full time in my job and have worked for this company for years. The last advisor I spoke to was incredibly apologetic for the stress and promised me (!) that this would not happen again and I didn't need to worry. Yet this morning I've received a letter dated 19th June 2024 stating they haven't received the £521.80 I supposedly owe... is this just going to go on and on for years? Because I really cannot cope or deal with that type of stress to be honest. I do not know what to do at this point.

I get put on hold for hours and cut off my calls and the online chats either send me around in circles or disconnect.
So how exactly am I supposed to sort this out quickly?

Not sure what more I can do.

[etf]

31 July 2024 tax payment on account date looming and yet credits from 2022/23 tax returns filed at the start of December 2023 are still parked in an HMRC cul-de-sac full of unprocessed tax returns.

We live in an age where you highlight something is an expletive, HMRC acknowledge they are an expletive, and yet still nothing happens. The horror of Harra.

The bloke should be put in the village stocks until he resources his department as it should be resourced. He is putting all his eggs in the MTD4IT basket which most predict will create chaos and leaving taxpayers in limbo limbo land with loads of other areas breaking under the strain.

On top of this he has been awarded a knighthood. I'm considering dropping off a card with a link to this thread to King Charles' shop in Tetbury (very nice fudge) asking him to reconsider.

[etf]

The Hammer House of Harra continues...when will someone intervene and put someone competent in charge?

Posted 7 days ago by halogenglow2

Same issue here. I submitted on time, and am owed around £1000 refund. I have spoken to HMRC on 3 occasions. First promised to escalate - didn't. Second time, I was told it had not been captured and was stuck, they would escalate - didn't. 3rd time I spoke to HMRC I was told the backlog is so large they cannot give a timeframe, and when I asked are we talking days.. months.. years? I was told no timeframe could be given. Even when I asked if it might be a decade - computer says no timeframe can be given.

I've raised a formal complaint for whatever good that will do, but i'd urge others to do the same.


Posted 6 days ago by wlk385

Hi halogenglow2

Thanks for raising a complaint and I would also urge others to do the same. I've raised one too, as per one of the previous posts. Obviously, no response within the reasonable timeframe I had requested, so I deem the outcome of the first review not to be satisfactory and yesterday I sent another letter to HMRC asking for a ''second review'' of their ''decision''. This is so that I can then further escalate to the Adjudicator's Office (which only reviews matters previously subject to a two-step review process by the HMRC).

[etf]

My nomination for the 2024 bullshit awards:

As HMRC chief executive Jim Harra noted at the start of the report: “Our Charter sits at the heart of what we do, setting out the standards of service and behaviours that customers should always expect from us.”

Seems I'm not alone in believing the regulators of HMRC are performing poorly:

“HMRC simply cannot deliver against the core charter standards while its performance levels are so poor, and this will continue to be reflected in survey results until it improves. Just 3% of respondents believe that HMRC is held sufficiently accountable for its performance against the charter.

[etf]

If any Agent is 'happy' with any aspect of HMRC ..
then you're (officially) in a minority - according to HMRC's statistics!



On Tuesday, "HMRC Charter performance indicators" were published on GOV.UK at https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/hmrc-charter/hmrc-charter-per... ... and, by focussing on pure statistics, make for stark reading (if few surprises to most on here).

.

These are supposed to be seen as the appendix to the main report on the HMRC Charter - as described by Richard at https://www.accountingweb.co.uk/tax/hmrc-policy/customer-service-problem... but whereas the report uses words to shift the focus away from facts (and frankly to invent 'signs of improvement'), the stats are clear:

* HMRC’s overall customer experience: proportion of Agents positively scoring their experience of interacting with HMRC = 37%

* HMRC gets transactions right: agents agreeing = 49%

* HMRC ensures all customers pay or receive the correct amounts: agents agreeing = 48%

* HMRC systems prevented mistakes: agents agreeing = 32%

* HMRC making things easy - Ease of dealing with tax issues: agents agreeing = 38%

* HMRC making things easy - It was easy to find information: agents agreeing = 45%

* HMRC being responsive - HMRC resolved any queries or issues: agents agreeing = 37%

* HMRC being responsive - HMRC time taken is acceptable: agents agreeing = 23%

* Customer survey - HMRC treats customers/your business fairly: agents agreeing = 62%

* Customer survey - HMRC applies penalties and sanctions equally: agents agreeing = 53%

* Customer survey - HMRC is an organisation that I/my business trusts: agents agreeing = 49%

* Customer survey - Information and services provided by HMRC have been tailored to your business: agents agreeing = 34%

Note: I've applied no selectivity - these are ALL the published stats from surveyed Agents.

[etf]

All sensible, but when has Sir Jim done sensible?

He has overspent hugely on this project so post/refunds/tax returns remain untouched for 12 months plus as the coffers are now bare.

By Ian McTernan CTA
03rd Aug 2024 14:25
Here's an idea: scrap the stupid idea of MTD and concentrate on getting the basics right before imposing yet more expensive compliance work on taxpayers.

Get your systems sorted.
Combine systems so a company has one reference for all taxes with a subnumber (V for VAT, IT= income tax, CT = corporation tax) just like Ireland has had for many years and allow set offs from one to the other.
Allow agents to update code numbers instead of the long winded waste of time we currently have.
Reopen local offices and have local points of contact: a large proportion of the tax base don't want to use digital for everything.
Once the system is fit for purpose, THEN start thinking of a system like MTD.

At the moment MTD is cart before horse. Anyone who supports it has been deluded by being too close to HMRC for too long and can't see the bigger issues.

[etf]

By gainsborough
02nd Aug 2024 10:05
I thought the service was generally poor a few years ago but it is awful now. I tried webchat as I was tired of waiting on the phone - 34 minute waiting time, then 10 minutes of "you are being connected to an advisor", then advisor has lost connection, then Groundhog Day back to the start with a 34 minute waiting time! All to chase a postal reply to a letter written in February.


Replying to gainsborough:

By Jabers
03rd Aug 2024 12:51
Had exactly same experience with lack of response to letter sent 9 February 2024.
After emailing my MP in July just before election, and because he obviously wanted my vote , I had a call from HMRC. Result!
As agents we should not have to go to these lengths to get action.

[etf]

Fantastic customer service from Next.

2 calls answered immediately by their customer service team over the weekend....what a breath of fresh air after the frustrations of the day job and dealing with Jim's HMRC. It is not rocket science but seemingly beyond Jim's capabilities.