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Where Taxpayers and Advisers Meet

Making Tax Digital

etf
Posts:1267
Joined:Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:25 pm
Re: Making Tax Digital

Postby etf » Mon Feb 14, 2022 1:47 pm

Great feedback!

By North East Accountant
14th Feb 2022 11:52
No. 7 -The benefits of Making Tax Digital to those with simple tax affairs are not clear...........this is not surprising because there are none.

etf
Posts:1267
Joined:Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:25 pm

Re: Making Tax Digital

Postby etf » Wed Mar 16, 2022 10:16 am

It will be interesting to see whether HMRC's Stratford KGB office deny the following FOI request from this accountingweb thread. Even money in my mythical betting shop.

I made an FOI request (Ref: FOI2022/11404) as set out below. It will be interesting to get the answers in the second week of April

Dear FOI Team

In an article on accountingweb on March 14, the Financial Secretary to the Treasury, stated that “We know that errors are thirteen times more likely to lead to too little tax being paid than too much being paid”

The context of that statement indicates that this is a finding from research prior to the analysis of VAT returns.. I have a number of questions.

Q1) Please advise when this research was carried out

Q2) Please advise on the size of the sample that was taken and the size of the sample investigated in detail once unsuitable entries were weeded out

Q3) Please advise whether the scope of the research covered both individuals and businesses

Q4) Please advise whether on the range of businesses investigated

Q5) Please advise on which taxes were found to be under-collected

Q6) Please provide the report or a link to the report which sets out the methodology; analysis and findings of the research.

etf
Posts:1267
Joined:Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:25 pm

Re: Making Tax Digital

Postby etf » Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:32 am

By tedbuck
04th Jul 2022 13:31
Lunatics in charge of the asylum.

This is just like Putin in Ukraine - we know it won't work and it is costing barrel loads of money but we will carry on as we don't want to lose face and admit we were wrong. It doesn't matter how much destruction it causes or how many people are stressed out or forced to spend money unnecessarily because HMRC are never wrong.

I don't think I have ever seen such stupidity and arrogant contempt for the people who have to pay their salaries and who will have to fork up for this nonsense. The kick-backs from the software people must be huge. I suppose that HMG members and HMRC members must have a few shares in the software companies. Sounds highly dodgy to me. Are there Oligarchs in HMRC? Perhaps they'll change its name to KGB at least it would be more honest and think of all the ink it would save.

I cannot remember being so disgusted with a government (?) department.

etf
Posts:1267
Joined:Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:25 pm

Re: Making Tax Digital

Postby etf » Mon Jul 11, 2022 4:04 pm

A reader response with oodles of common sense:

By kevinringer
11th Jul 2022 12:08
Tornado, you are spot on. It's because HMRC have lost sight of their purpose: to collect tax. SA was designed when HMRC had local offices where the officers had regular contact with taxpayers and agents. In those days, HMRC carried out regular SA and VAT inspections so HMRC had a good understanding of how businesses worked and what HMRC could reasonably expect from the self-employed in terms of record keeping etc. For example, SA required the self-employed to keep mileage logs but HMRC staff knew this was unreasonable and were happy to work with the reasonable estimates we calculated. Jump to today and there are no local offices and HMRC no longer carries out in-person SA or VAT inspections, as a result HMRC have lost contact with their "customers" (that label itself demonstrates how far adrift HMRC are). As a result, HMRC have no idea what their "customers" are capable and incapable of, and what reasonable demands can be made on them. HMRC have had their ears tickled by the software industry who are taking the lead on this. IT is only the means of delivery, not the tax system itself. Having the media-of-delivery people lead will only cause problems. SA was initially paper based. Just image what SA would have looked like if it was led by the media-of-delivery people (ie, the printers) instead of tax people: we'd be buried in forms. That's what's happened with MTD: we've been buried in the digital equivalent. HMRC needs to re-focus on their core purpose: to collect tax. If the SA system is working properly it should collect the same tax as MTD. As HMRC already have the tools to achieve that, HMRC should use those tools. There's no need to create this square-wheel MTD regime.

etf
Posts:1267
Joined:Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:25 pm

Re: Making Tax Digital

Postby etf » Mon Aug 08, 2022 9:43 am

Wonder whether there was somone previously in post who thought shit I don't like where this is heading. Having tried to access the job spec and met with the message at the bottom perhaps Liz Truss has intervened and told Jim his ship is going to sink as soon as she is PM .

By Mr Hankey
05th Aug 2022 15:11
The deputy director job for Making Tax Digital is currently vacant, if anyone fancies applying you can view the details here:

https://www.civilservicejobs.service.gov.uk/csr/index.cgi?SID=b3duZXJ0eX...

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Replying to Mr Hankey:
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By MCV71
05th Aug 2022 17:53
So the ship is even more rudderless than we thought!



Cannot view job
This job has closed or been withdrawn

etf
Posts:1267
Joined:Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:25 pm

Re: Making Tax Digital

Postby etf » Fri Aug 12, 2022 10:41 am

More negative feedback for Jim Harra's MTD for IT.

By kevinringer
10th Aug 2022 10:10
The short answer is we accountants do not have the capacity to digitise our clients records, nor to correct the digital records prepared by our clients (which can take longer than scrapping our client's attempts and starting again from scratch). Our job is to prepare accounts and Tax Returns, it is not to teach our clients how to use a computer or how to become bookkeepers. We all know it takes years of experience to become a bookkeeper, so how can we teach our entire client base? Add to this the huge number of experienced accountants that are retiring by 2024 because of MTD (I know several personally) will increase the shortage of accountants further.

The only way we could cope with the workload is to (1) switch to monthly bookkeeping for all clients and (2) hire staff now to get them trained up. But if we hire staff now, who is going to pay for them? Given the massive financial pressures on clients as a result of Brexit/Covid/Inflation/Energy costs, clients can't afford the extra costs. And in any case, HMRC have kicked the MTD-can down the road so many times and the complete lack of detail and disastrous pilot (only 8 participants after 5 years), I can't see how MTD can go live in 2024. So who is going to risk training more staff when they might not be needed in 2024?

And what is the point of MTD? We warned HMRC it would increase error and sure enough, the VAT gap increased the first year of MTD VAT. All that cost for less tax. Maybe the increase in the tax gap is the "saving" that HMRC said "customers" would benefit from as a result of MTD? Silly me, I had thought HMRC had been arguing the cost of the software and time was the saving. No, it's because everyone will be paying less tax because the software allows them to put all their personal expenses against the business and claim VAT on everything including wages, drawings and the VAT payment itself. HMRC don't seem to mind at all and accept any rubbish as long as it is digital rubbish.

etf
Posts:1267
Joined:Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:25 pm

Re: Making Tax Digital

Postby etf » Wed Aug 24, 2022 12:42 pm

By tedbuck
24th Aug 2022 10:56
Yet again we have taxation by penalties - in this case deliberately increased risk by obfuscation by HMRC.

Many solicitors were initially unaware of this system - did not HMRC think to tell them?

Sorry, that was silly, linking the words 'think' and 'HMRC'.

With all the penalties now arising there can be little doubt that HMRC realise they are incompetent at raising taxes correctly so are looking at a new income source. Think MTD for ITSA - you ain't seen nothing yet - and in that case it will be the people who cannot afford it who will have to pay. It's a wonder that the architects of the scheme can actually sleep at night - perhaps they sleep all day when they can do it at our cost!

I cannot ever recall being so disgusted at the gross incompetence of HMRC - it should be closed down and a working alternative replace it - and the people running it - paid by us - should be sacked without a golden handshake and a peerage. The taxpayer is footing the bill for this bunch of muppets, most of whom don't even understand the taxes they are administering.

Apologies for the rant but what else can one do?

etf
Posts:1267
Joined:Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:25 pm

Re: Making Tax Digital

Postby etf » Sat Aug 27, 2022 5:56 am

By kevinringer
26th Aug 2022 14:58
With massive increases in costs and a public with reducing disposable income, many businesses will have ceased to exist by the time MTD starts. Those businesses have got enough on their plate just trying to survive without HMRC completely finishing them off with MTD ITSA. I know HMRC has lost touch with its "customers" since the closure of the local offices, but can those at the helm of HMRC be so out of touch with reality that they believe MTD ITSA is achievable? Unfortunately, HMRC's movers and shakers have completely lost their grip on reality. But they don't care because they'll all retire with gongs and fat pensions whereas our clients will retire with debts and overdrafts.

etf
Posts:1267
Joined:Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:25 pm

Re: Making Tax Digital

Postby etf » Sat Aug 27, 2022 6:05 am

By twohaporth
26th Aug 2022 15:21
Words absolutely fail me. My recent experiences of HMRC suggest that they don't know what they are talking about when dealing with tax queries - even the complaints department get it wrong. You cannot phone them and get through to them so what will happen with MTDfITSA - a million ? taxpayers wanting quarterly assistance to file rubbish so say 4 million telephone calls a year on a system that is already rubbished (Jim' 80% satisfaction is really a load of b*****ks I haven't met anyone who is satisfied) So where are the extra 50,000 telephonists coming from and who is going to train them in accountancy, tax and digital matters? (They will need all of those skills to be effective) Answer - well your guess is as good as mine - university graduates wfh and trained at home in the simple skills of taxation management. The more you think about this the more stupid HMRC appear and the fact that they don't listen to the people who deal with this at ground level shows an arrogance that is absolutely mindblowing. They just are not fit to be civil servants - just trying to become little Gods in a digital heaven.
But... is there a ray of hope on the Horizon? I read somewhere that Liz Truss is or was an accountant so perhaps she might be persuaded to look at it a bit more closely and but her pointed toe into the posterior of the man in charge. Now that's an entertainment I would pay to see!

Think we need a little old lady to go up to Jim Harra on camera and tell him he has been in charge for x years and achieved bleep bleep. What planet does he live on?

etf
Posts:1267
Joined:Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:25 pm

Re: Making Tax Digital

Postby etf » Sat Aug 27, 2022 6:08 am

By Pravesh Jeebun
26th Aug 2022 15:25
It really now is about time all of the professional bodies contact HMRC to say NO (unless they have hidden agendas) and support their members in earning a living without all of this rubbish.
This mad system can be of no use to anyone. What happens if someone needs to speak with an HMRC agent? Was waiting on the phone for over an hour yesterday only to be told once I had got through that they could not help!!!!


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