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Where Taxpayers and Advisers Meet

Making Tax Digital

etf
Posts:1886
Joined:Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:25 pm
Re: Making Tax Digital

Postby etf » Wed Jul 29, 2026 6:08 am

I'm waiting for HMRC to sell the exclusive MTD4IT rights to Tango man's relatives. Annual software costs rise to £5,000...'it's a beautiful thing'.

In my youth I watched a film with the title 'It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World'...never been more appropriate in my lifetime. It featured the 'Big W'...not what you might be thinking, but also appropriate.

By ireallyshouldknowthisbut
28th Jul 2026 14:15

I wonder at what point HMRC and our institutes will wake up to this? Is it going to take a summer of problems in 12 months?

etf
Posts:1886
Joined:Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:25 pm

Re: Making Tax Digital

Postby etf » Wed Jul 29, 2026 9:46 am

MP Murray...Andy, get me out of here. First Tornado and now mild mannered Kevin Ringer.

By kevinringer
29th Jul 2026 09:22
The Government announced MTD in 2015 to start in 2017. Surely those who dreamed up MTD in 2015 had planned it sufficiently so it could start in 2017, with the year-end submission occurring in 2018. Surely no one would announce such a fundamental change to tax reporting without planning the details to make sure it was achievable and realistic? Oh, silly me, this is HMRC we're talking about. No problem, HMRC has been running a pilot since 2017, so there's been plenty of time to sort this out. So how could HMRC run a pilot for 9 years and not deal with this? This demonstrates how incompetent HMRC are. And what about the numerous Government ministers of all colours who have been involved over the last 10 years. This shows how pointless they are. I wonder what HMRC's movers and shakers really think, privately, about MTD? Are they still living in fantasy land, or has the penny finally dropped? Many of us here an AWeb have been telling HMRC the folly of their ways for the last 10 years, but instead of listening to our collective vast experience of small businesses and taxpayers, HMRC have just pushed their fingers deeper into their ears and closed their eyes tighter pretending we don't exist. It's all coming out in the wash; we were right, HMRC were wrong. Yet we have to pick up the mess and comply, whereas those who caused the mess will retire with a gong and fat pension. George Osbourne who started this problem abandoned Government years ago. Why aren't politicians held personally accountable for the mess they cause?[/color]

etf
Posts:1886
Joined:Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:25 pm

Re: Making Tax Digital

Postby etf » Thu Jul 30, 2026 5:09 am

Clusterfcuk Alert

One would think PM Andy Burnham should be clearing out the clusterfcukers responsible for MTD4IT.

Instead he has reappointed the Labour individual who said MTD4IT was good to go when clearly that decision was seriously flawed. For years, HMRC staff have been unable to cope with any interaction with taxpayers and Labour's solution is to continue with the introduction of a new tax reporting system with the complexity and cost that creates. If Political Parties stopped spending on harebrain schemes they might have more in the coffers for social care etc.

June’s Any Answers show accountants being left to deal with the fallout when MTD, government systems and software go wrong. With the first quarterly deadline approaching, the pressure is building.

By FactChecker
29th Jul 2026 12:28
A decent encapsulation of just some of the icebergs surrounding HMS MTD ... but these are of course only the most immediately visible problems (because they're being raised by practitioners).

The real scale of the instability can be better understood by reference to two key software aspects:

1. the size of the official, but not over publicised, list of bugs/defects (some in HMRC's software and some in the APIs that must be used by commercial developers).
These are the ones acknowledged by HMRC to exist, but for which there is as yet no agreed fix (or date for that)!

2. the lack of a single, comprehensive specification of the whole lifecycle of an MTD tax year (including the so far hazy Tax Return).
Not a mere vision of an idealised flow of processes, but a detailed set of rules that covers ALL possible permutations of taxpayer's businesses .. procedures .. accounting (not merely bookkeeping) requirements .. interaction with their non-MTD affairs .. and so on.
And that doesn't shy away from what to do about system failures such as:
- when your cloud-based software supplier goes out of business;
- when your banking services supplier cannot supply a batch of data;
- when you find your chosen software doesn't support one of your activities;
- when you don't have a password but your bookkeeper is incapacitated;
... all the way through to ...
- when you discover missing figures *after* the tax return has been filed; or simply disagree with HMRC's calcs.

At the moment the only reason the ship is still afloat, despite "the first quarterly deadline approaching", is that the 'deadline' applies NO pressure.

At least not on taxpayers who are late or even recalcitrant .. there's some pressure on agents (holding on to their professional standards) AND there should be on HMRC - desperately trying to work out how to spin Qtr 1 as a success.

etf
Posts:1886
Joined:Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:25 pm

Re: Making Tax Digital

Postby etf » Thu Jul 30, 2026 5:17 am

https://www.accountingweb.co.uk/practice/general-practice/mtd-and-the-art-of-picking-up-the-pieces

Where is Martin Lewis when you need him? We love you Martin, but you only have 14 hours to save the earth.

By ETS Tax Returns
29th Jul 2026 13:20
I think this article is good, but hasn't picked up some of the major issues highlighted recently with submissions.

The calendar quarter issue has not been resolved, I have submitted calendar quarters with the election but they are showing as still due on the ASA.

There are those where the National Insurance number does not match. This is shocking, because 4 years ago the Trust Registration system failed to match the identity of a taxpayer to their National Insurance number in a large number of cases. In my own experience it was at least 1 in every 4, meaning you had include another trustee as the lead trustee to complete the registration. How have they not fixed this in 4 years and allowed this system to go ahead?

Other accountants have mentioned to me that in some cases the HMRC systems hold an incorrect postcode for the client. They have advised the accountant in question that it cannot be changed and as a consequence the quarterly submission cannot be validated and so it is literally impossible to submit for clients affected by an incorrect postcode and, worst still, there appears to be no fix for it. There may be a soft landing for the quarterly submissions, but if they are not filed the 'MTD Tax Return' cannot be, which will lead to penalties and multiple appeals.

These are the sorts of issues, amongst many others highlighted in this article and elsewhere, that should have been handled in a testing phase.

I think it is going to become painfully obvious very soon, if it was not already to many of us, that the system is not currently fit for purpose and in all likelihood, never will be. To have taken 10 years to arrive at this current sorry state is absurd. The sooner they decide to scrap this system the better. Please help us all if they decide to proceed with extending it to the £30k threshold.

etf
Posts:1886
Joined:Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:25 pm

Re: Making Tax Digital

Postby etf » Thu Jul 30, 2026 10:11 pm

Did Infantino attend Youth Opportunity Scheme training with HMRC on how to implement a plan?

60 years since West Ham won the World Cup and no Knighthood for Bobby Moore...I'm sure all of HMRC's Knights and Dames did a better job :cry: Says it all really.

etf
Posts:1886
Joined:Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:25 pm

Re: Making Tax Digital

Postby etf » Fri Jul 31, 2026 5:21 am

MTDITSA False overdue Income Tax letter

Just a heads up to others really.

Client has just received an overdue tax letter, plus interest accruing. Client's SA account is actually in credit. After a very painful lengthly call with the ADL, turns out it was generated in error. They said client's record was migrated to MTD in July 2025, and the letter was just a crossover from that. Clearly I questioned this. If the client's record was migrated in July 2025, then why are they receiving an overdue tax letter in July 2026. Anyhow, client's last SA payment was PRE the transfer date they have given, yet the funds have not been married. I wish I could say the matter has now been rectified. But, after 96 minutes, the call was cut off. I did ask during the call, if a client is in MTDITSA, do I still call the ADL? They said yes, but choose the MTD option. I asked this because I was passed from the ADL, to MTD and agent support apparently, then to MTD. Painful.

etf
Posts:1886
Joined:Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:25 pm

Re: Making Tax Digital

Postby etf » Fri Jul 31, 2026 5:32 am

Like cigarettes MTD4IT should come with a warning that it can seriously damage your health

MTD Verify ID
Anyone else having issues?

We (as an agent) have succesfully completed over 20 or so submissions.

There are 3 clients whereby that we have copies of both Driving License and Passport, we have access to them on our portal to check tax payments, we know for certain the information being entered is correct, HMRC is having none of it.

The Technical team say they will be unlocked in 24 hours to try again, I've told them "but I'll be entering the exact same details....."

Anyone else having issue with this absolute sh*tshow of a waste of time?

etf
Posts:1886
Joined:Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:25 pm

Re: Making Tax Digital

Postby etf » Sat Aug 01, 2026 5:39 am

Did Infantino attend Youth Opportunity Scheme training with HMRC on how to implement a plan?

Difference...he shelved his plan when pressure mounted.

etf
Posts:1886
Joined:Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:25 pm

Re: Making Tax Digital

Postby etf » Sat Aug 01, 2026 6:05 am

Receipt or deceit? The MTD confirmation gap
by Robyn Milstead
Robyn Milstead examines the missing reassurance around MTD submissions and asks whether taxpayers and agents can really trust that ‘submitted’ means ‘received by HMRC’.

31st Jul 2026

Do you remember simpler times? When straightforward sole traders and landlords only had to think about tax once a year.

When a tax return didn’t have lots of different names (and which name is right anyway?). And when submitting one ended with something reassuringly tangible: a receipt. An Inland Revenue (IR) mark even!

I remember when, as the junior in the tax team, it was my job on 31 January to sprint to the local HMRC office carrying a stack of paper tax returns, arriving just before closing time. If all went well, you’d walk away with a stamped acknowledgement confirming they had been received before the deadline.

It wasn’t glamorous, but it provided certainty.

I’ve written before about the differences between self assessment and Making Tax Digital for income tax (MTD). One of the biggest changes isn’t just the move to quarterly reporting – it’s that the submission process itself has fundamentally changed.

Under self assessment, we calculated the tax and sent HMRC the answer. Under MTD, we send the underlying information, HMRC performs its own calculation, and the taxpayer (or agent) must agree with that calculation before the process is complete. Miss that final stage and you will not have made the submission you thought you had.

Even experienced agents are still discovering quirks within the new system. Some software, for example, continually updates HMRC with revised figures as inputs are amended because it relies on HMRC’s calculation rather than producing one itself. Personally, I’m uncomfortable with that approach… but that’s a discussion for another day.

Today I want to talk about something much more basic. Submission receipts.

The missing receipt
One of the most familiar things about the self assessment process was the acknowledgement.

First, it provided independent confirmation from HMRC that your submission had actually been received. Secondly, it gave you something concrete to show your client. Job done.

However, under MTD that reassurance largely disappears for quarterly updates.

Until recently, I hadn’t really considered the significance of this. It was my Accountants Therapy partner-in-crime, Tom Bickle, who mentioned it in passing. He was right.

There isn’t a standard HMRC acknowledgement in the way many of us have become accustomed to. Your software may display that an obligation has been fulfilled or it may provide its own confirmation screen, but if you want independent confirmation from HMRC, the most reliable method is to log into the Government Gateway and check the obligations are showing as fulfilled yourself.

That’s inconvenient enough for agents.

For taxpayers managing their own affairs, it’s even less realistic. Many will have dug out their Government Gateway credentials purely to connect their software. After that, why would they ever think to log back in just to verify that what the software told them was actually reflected on HMRC’s systems?

Sign up
When software says ‘submitted’
This became particularly concerning during some testing I carried out on software marketed as MTD-ready but which, at the time of testing, did not appear on HMRC’s recognised software list.

After entering only basic personal details, I was presented with an in-app banner stating, ‘MTD Q1 Update: Submitted’, followed by, ‘This 2026/27 digital update has been successfully submitted to HMRC.’

What worried me wasn’t the extremely legitimate-looking message alone.

I had not entered a national insurance number or unique taxpayer reference. I had not connected a Government Gateway account. Yet the application displayed what appeared to be a successful submission confirmation. At that point, most users would quite reasonably close the app and assume the job was finished.

How many would independently log into HMRC to verify it?

I suspect very few.

A market that lacks consistency
This boils down to what happens when there is no consistent standard for how software should demonstrate that a submission has genuinely been accepted by HMRC.

If every product is free to design its own workflows, terminology and confirmation screens, it becomes increasingly difficult for taxpayers to distinguish between a genuine HMRC acknowledgement and a message generated entirely within the software.

When you’ve been making submissions, have you been sure they’re successfully received by HMRC? Have you checked your (difficult to navigate) agent services account each time? I haven’t.

I’ve also become increasingly concerned by reports of products relying on third-party bridging software behind the scenes. If taxpayer data is being passed through additional providers, users should clearly understand where their information is going and why. Transparency matters, particularly when dealing with tax data.

Do you know whether the providers you’re using for clients are making the submission or bridging in the background?

A problem that will only grow
MTD has created an entirely new, unregulated, software marketplace serving an enormous set of new customers who are, in general, poorly tax educated and increasingly have no adviser as we get through the various mandated cohorts.

Yet there remains remarkably little consistency between products.

There is no familiar tax return layout. No standardised submission journey. No universally recognised confirmation from HMRC. Even the terminology varies from one provider to another.

That makes it unnecessarily difficult for taxpayers to judge whether they’re using reliable software or simply persuasive marketing. The recognised software list is valuable, but only if taxpayers know it exists and understand why it matters.

As MTD expands, software will become the primary interface between millions of taxpayers and HMRC. That means consistency, transparency and clear evidence of successful submissions will become more and more important for quality control.


etf
Posts:1886
Joined:Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:25 pm

Re: Making Tax Digital

Postby etf » Sat Aug 01, 2026 6:32 am

FFS, how did we arrive at this level of complexity and uncertainty?

By FactChecker
01st Aug 2026 00:21
Totally agree with the central point (being able to prove that you 'hit submit' whatever subsequently does or doesn't happen at HMRC's end) ... but I think you've skipped over one of my greatest fears when you say:

"Under self assessment, we calculated the tax and sent HMRC the answer. Under MTD, we send the underlying information, HMRC performs its own calculation, and the taxpayer (or agent) must agree with that calculation before the process is complete."

It's that phrase "Under MTD, we send the underlying information" which concerns me.
From HMRC's perspective, as I understand it, from the moment that you start to create an MTD tax return (which you cannot do unless they acknowledge receipt & acceptance of *the* 4th QU) ... the default position is a complete inversion of the SA process.
As far as they are concerned, if you are allowed to commence the TR filing process then THEY have already got all the underlying figures needed to tell YOU the tax calculation.
Sure some of those figures have been sent to them by you via the 4th QU - but to HMRC that's just another source, alongside what they are receiving from an ever wider range of 3rd parties.
[BTW that requirement, embedded in HMRC's software, for *the* 4th QU to be successfully submitted before you start on the TR may have no knowledge that you need to submit more than one set of QUs?]

Anyway back to my concern/whinge ...
HMRC appear to have no concept of a distinction between what I shall call 'corrections' (figures that should change those reported in the final QU of the TY - because of data corruption or a missed bank transaction or whatever) ... and what I shall call 'amendments' (additional data not reported within a QU but that changes the tax calculation - allowances etc).
And this lack of understanding means that there's no clear (as in commonly understood by all software developers) mechanism for the taxpayer/agent to handle these quite different 'updates' - in the hope of getting HMRC to re-calculate the tax correctly for you.
[this is not just in terms of the channels/methods to notify HMRC of changes, but of maintaining any sort of synchronicity between the taxpayer's digital records and what HMRC end up with]

After that ... we return to your core point ... and THEN move on to the next fun one:
* what are the mechanisms for resolving any 'dispute' between what the taxpayer/agent believes to be a correct figure (or its treatment within the calculation) and what the HMRC system keeps sending back to them (awaiting their acceptance)?
[both the digital processes, which must surely exist, and any others when those digital processes bring no agreement ... and what happens in the meantime to automated penalties if the deadline is missed through lack of timeous agreement?]

ALL of that is part of the broadly unannounced total redesign of the workflow for submitting a TR ... it couldn't be more different (and inconclusive) from the days of getting your stamped receipt at the local tax office - which only said they'd got it, not that it was 'accepted', but that was enough to move on.


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