This site uses cookies. By continuing to browse the site you are agreeing to our use of cookies. To find out more about cookies on this website and how to delete cookies, see our Cookie Policy.
Analytics

Tools which collect anonymous data to enable us to see how visitors use our site and how it performs. We use this to improve our products, services and user experience.

Essential

Tools that enable essential services and functionality, including identity verification, service continuity and site security.

Where Taxpayers and Advisers Meet

NRCGT return

etf
Posts:840
Joined:Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:25 pm
Re: NRCGT return

Postby etf » Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:02 am

A quote below from HMRC's Giles McCallum on the introduction of MTD for income tax:
“But digital record keeping is the way forward. Sticking your receipts on a spike and dealing with them at the end of the year is not the way things are going. We have got to make that change. It is happening. But I agree it is about the taxpayer.”

And a quote below from HMRC's FOI Team about their new reporting system:
We can confirm we hold individual-level information on the timing of tax return submissions and any late returns penalties levied. However, aggregate level information on all penalties relating to returns submitted via the system for reporting Capital Gains Tax (CGT)-liable residential property disposals is not produced; and it would exceed the FOIA cost limit to provide this information.

I can see an advantage in the spike philosophy as it does allow you to quantify what you have done. I've written back to the FOI bods just to double check their reporting system is as rubbish as first claimed.

etf
Posts:840
Joined:Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:25 pm

Re: NRCGT return

Postby etf » Wed Dec 08, 2021 8:07 am

Successful NRCGT appeals .....3% success to 99% success.

HMRC response....no Taxpayer Charter rules have been broken. We've treated everyone fairly.

Allegra Stratton following her demotion to the FOI team.....what is the answer, this is difficult?

Jim Harra...just advise that HMRC are no longer able to provide any quarterly statistics to the public and our brand new reporting system is unable to capture information on the millions of late filing penalties that we have collected. Strokes cat on lap.

More cheese and wine Allegra?

etf
Posts:840
Joined:Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:25 pm

Re: NRCGT return

Postby etf » Mon Dec 20, 2021 9:30 pm

The claim that they do not aggregate such data is not credible. I simply do not believe that they have installed a system within the last few years, that does not do this automatically.

Lambs, the Freedom of Information team must have forwarded my email questioning their earlier response to the following team who responded as below:

Information Rights Unit | Solicitor's Office and Legal Services
HMRC | 8th Floor | Stratford RC | 14 Westfield Avenue | London | E20 1HZ

We can confirm that the position as regards CGT on UK Property Account penalties is as set out in our updated response issued on 4 November.


Like you I find it unbelievable (in my best Victor Meldrew voice) that this is true and I find Boris to be more credible. Why did they need to send it to a different team to reply if what they originally stated is true?

If they don't know the aggregate number of penalties issued and the revenue they have generated, what is to stop someone syphoning off a few £100K to cover an overspend on decorating? Under their system of non-accounting nobody would ever know.

To quote Haircut 100 from the early 80s 'where do we go from here, is it down to the end of the pier?'

etf
Posts:840
Joined:Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:25 pm

Re: NRCGT return

Postby etf » Tue Jan 11, 2022 7:17 am

Boris and his parties.....break the rules.....lie.....attempt to cover it up.

HMRC and NRCGT filings....ditto all of the above.

Remember they are the department who allowed 3% of late filing penalty appeals in one quarter, 99% in another and yet continue to claim they are treating taxpayers even-handedly. And when these statistics became embarrassing they resorted to denying freedom of information requests as though I was requesting the names and addresses of all UK spies rather than the number of NRCGT returns filed late etc.

The police are now investigating Boris and his lockdown parties. Hopefully the tax police will at least ask HMRC to respond to the above allegations.

pawncob
Posts:4876
Joined:Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:06 pm
Location:West Sussex

Re: NRCGT return

Postby pawncob » Tue Jan 11, 2022 1:02 pm

Who polices HMRC?
Have you complained to her?
https://www.gov.uk/government/people/angela-macdonald
With a pinch of salt take what I say, but don't exceed your RDA

etf
Posts:840
Joined:Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:25 pm

Re: NRCGT return

Postby etf » Tue Jan 11, 2022 1:46 pm

Thanks Pawncob. I may try that avenue once all 2020/21 tax returns have been filed. One would hope that senior people at HMRC would wish to abide by their own rules and police themselves but all I have seen is Boris behaviour, viz refusing Freedom of Information requests that initially were answered in routine fashion until the figures clearly stunk too much.

My previous correspondence on this matter has included my professional body and Jon Thompson. One would hope that professional bodies once they become aware of alleged rule breaking would at least ask questions of HMRC. The old regime who were copied in appeared very interested in taking HMRC to task but the current regime, for reasons unknown, have to the best of my knowledge not acted in a positive manner. If a variance of 3% to 99% successful appeals does not raise eyebrows nothing will.

etf
Posts:840
Joined:Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:25 pm

Re: NRCGT return

Postby etf » Sat Feb 26, 2022 12:22 am

By kevinringer
25th Feb 2022 13:47
HMRC blame Covid and Brexit as if these have only had a negative impact on HMRC. HMRC don't help themselves. Take the 30-day CGT regime. HMRC launched it just days into the UK's first national lockdown. The regime was invented by IT people who seemed to think everyone was digitally-competent. Despite pleas from agents to postpone/cancel the regime HMRC's steam roller had made its mind up. And look at what happened. To date not one of my clients has been able to do the digital handshake so we've had to resort to paper forms. What used to take minutes on a SA Return now involves a phone call to HMRC who then issue a paper form which has to be filled in with a pen and client signature obtained then posted to HMRC who were taking over 100 days to process and then send out a paper bill. And the crazy thing is the disposal still needs declaring on the client's SA Return anyway. HMRC have given themselves a rod for their own back.

When HMRC launched CJRS, HMRC made sure our existing PAYE online authorisations applied to CJRS because HMRC knew they would need our help. CGT is part of SA so HMRC could have saved themselves countless hours of time if they'd made the new CGT regime recognise the existing authorisations. Though my clients are mainly digitally-challenged I am not and I would have much rather submitted digital CGT declarations but I have had to use paper because of the digital limitations of my clients. HMRC needs to build agents into their regimes from the outset because without our involvement I think the tax system would be in a much worse state than it already is.

etf
Posts:840
Joined:Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:25 pm

Re: NRCGT return

Postby etf » Fri Mar 11, 2022 12:26 pm

By MCV71
10th Mar 2022 18:01
HMRC facts are as reliable as Putin’s

Thanks (4)
Replying to MCV71:
avatar
By johnjenkins
11th Mar 2022 09:54
Looks like Putin has nobbled HMRC.


It is undeniable that HMRC have shown Putinesque behaviour traits:

a)

3% successful NRCGT appeals in one quarter/99% successful appeals in another quarter
HMRC continue to confirm they deal with all taxpayers fairly.

b)

When Freedom of Information statistics begin to stink the place out
HMRC's KGB centre in Stratford respond by denying Freedom of Information requests i.e. an attempt to silence their critics and claim the newly installed systems are unable to provide basic data.

etf
Posts:840
Joined:Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:25 pm

Re: NRCGT return

Postby etf » Fri Mar 18, 2022 4:39 pm

Please read the following HMRC forum thread which suggests HMRC have given zero thought to how non-UK residents file electronic CGT property disposal returns. They belatedly extended the filing deadline to 60 days from 30 days, but it appears even if they increased it to 600 years, some will not be able to file electronically. Remember this lot are responsible for introducing MTD for IT. I suggest tying those responsible to an Everton goalpost and allowing the Goodison crowd to do their thing.

https://community.hmrc.gov.uk/customerforums/mtd/0be7d451-4cb2-eb11-89ee-00155d9c9e63

Posted 30 days ago by Andrew Jeeves

Tried the Report a problem link the digital team say the site is working as designed and its not a technical issue, So back to square 1 non residents cannot use the site as it seems to be designed to exclude anyone who does not have a UK address. Digital team will not help. Any suggestions?

Posted 29 days ago by HMRC Admin 20

Hi Andrew Jeeves,



You are correct, most of the options provided rely on information that you'd only have if you lived in the UK.



Thank you.


Posted 29 days ago by Steve

So for the past 9 months since this thread started, those of us who live o/s still can't access the system. I have to ask, does the last message from HRMC, "You are correct, most of the options provided rely on information that you'd only have if you lived in the UK.", help any of us at all? No, it doesn't.

I think what we are looking for is a solution for the issue, not a message confirming what we already know. HRMC would know that there will be people who need access from o/s, yet have designed a system that deliberately excludes us. So could HRMC explain to us what they intend to do to remedy this situation?
Posted 25 days ago by HMRC Admin 19

Hi Andrew Jeeves,



There is no other way to verify other than through the questions being asked, if you cannot answer using the options being provided you will not be able to verify for the account.



Thank you.


Posted 25 days ago by HMRC Admin 19

Hi Steve,



We apologise if you found our response unhelpful, we can only comment on the system that is currently in place.



We do not have any information regarding potential changes to the online verification system.



Thank you.


Posted 8 days ago by kwilkie

I was not given the full list of options. Is it possible to verify using services like GOV.UK VERIFY?

Posted 7 days ago by HMRC Admin 10

Hi kwilkie



If you are not resident in the UK you will not be able to use gov.uk verify.



That service will no longer be available for HMRC services from 01/04/2022.



Thankyou.



Regards.

etf
Posts:840
Joined:Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:25 pm

Re: NRCGT return

Postby etf » Fri Mar 18, 2022 8:27 pm

Further to my post earlier today, here is another HMRC forum reply which unless I'm missing something appears to contradict the first one.

Posted about a month ago by KS1
Hi,
Is there a way for a non-resident to open a Government Gateway account in order to report CGT on a UK Property when they don't have a UK Postcode?

Posted about a month ago by HMRC Admin 20

Hi KS1,

Please follow the link here for reporting non resident capital gains, you should not require a UK postcode to do this.

How to report disposals

Thank you.


Return to “Capital Gains Tax, CGT”