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Where Taxpayers and Advisers Meet

NRCGT return

etf
Posts: 624
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:25 pm

Re: NRCGT return

Postby etf » Fri Aug 30, 2019 4:07 pm

If my understanding is correct, another month has elapsed without an NRCGT tribunal case being published on the Gov' website. That is now 8 straight months without one (in contrast to a convoy of cases in prior years). Does this suggest HMRC have thrown in the towel?

If so:

-how can the Department still contend taxpayers have been treated even-handedly?

-when will the bods who ensure HMRC follow the content of the Taxpayers Charter invite Sir Jon into their office for an urgent meeting?

PS still awaiting any suggestions indicating why Goochie had his NRCGT penalties cancelled given the content of his accountant's appeal letter.

etf
Posts: 624
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:25 pm

Re: NRCGT return

Postby etf » Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:24 am

Great train robbery proceeds: £2.6 million.

HMRC NRCGT late filing penalties charged £4.633 million (to 30 June 2019).

etf
Posts: 624
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:25 pm

Re: NRCGT return

Postby etf » Mon Sep 30, 2019 2:54 pm

I've copied below an extract from John Whiting's lecture on tax simplification:

John opened his lecture by explaining that tax simplification should make it easier for taxpayers to meet their obligations, lessen errors and increase the public’s confidence and trust in the tax system. Simplification has strong links to Adam Smith's four canons of taxation (certainty/convenience/efficiency/equity).

It can be argued that under the NRCGT system, all four canons (or cannons) have badly misfired:

Certaintly:just review the NRCGT tribunal rulings and you will see there is no certainty.
Convenience:having to make two separate tax filings to report the same disposal certainly is not convenient especially if you are based in a Borneo rainforest.
Efficiency: it can't be efficient for HMRC staff to turn up at tribunal after tribunal and be bashed by the tribunal judges.
Equity-tell individuals who have paid NRCGT penalties that the system is equitable and they will suggest you identify the magic ingredient in Goochie's accountant's letter that lead to his penalties being cancelled.

Over 10,000 hits have been recorded on this thread in the last fortnight, but zero feedback has been left. I'd like to think it is because a coherent case for HMRC bods to thoroughly review the department's behaviour is being made, but perhaps everyone is just staying well clear of the nutter who regularly posts on the NRCGT return thread. Either way, I'd actively encourage you to contribute to the debate, especially if you can solve the Goochie NRCGT mystery.

pawncob
Posts: 4447
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:06 pm
Location: West Sussex

Re: NRCGT return

Postby pawncob » Mon Sep 30, 2019 5:28 pm

Your head and the brick wall must be well acquainted by now. We don't comment because we think you're doing such a good job of holding HMRC to account.
With a pinch of salt take what I say, but don't exceed your RDA

etf
Posts: 624
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:25 pm

Re: NRCGT return

Postby etf » Tue Nov 05, 2019 11:43 am

Political party-we will build 200,000 new homes for first time buyers.

HMRC-we will treat all taxpayers even-handedly.

Common theme here?

Certainly, there have been no published NRCGT tribunal cases during the first 10 months of 2019 on the Gov' website.

etf
Posts: 624
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:25 pm

Re: NRCGT return

Postby etf » Fri Nov 15, 2019 2:03 pm

I've just read the following (my bold) with interest:

BDO, the liquidators of the old company that controlled Ibrox, have continued to tussle with the tax authority about the total bill. That reached a maximum of £94m.

But it has emerged that HMRC has removed a penalty of £24m, after an appeal to the tax authority's Penalty Review Consistency Panel.

Surely this panel should be reviewing NRCGT penalties given the information that has come to light through freedom of information requests? If data such as that detailed below does not spark them into life what will?

So we have gone from a situation where 97% of NRCGT appeals failed to 97% succeeding in just a short period of time

Perhaps the mystery of the Goochie case (Lord Lucan equivalent in the world of tax) will finally be looked at. "And so HMRC, how many other cases are out there like Goochie?" "Sorry Guv' we don't know as we don't maintain records like that!"

etf
Posts: 624
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:25 pm

Re: NRCGT return

Postby etf » Sat Nov 30, 2019 11:52 am

We are now 11 months into 2019 and no NRCGT tribunal cases appear to have been published on the Gov' website. How can HMRC contend they are dealing with taxpayers even-handedly given the string of cases published in prior years?

Equally perplexing is that despite a 194 point swing (97% appeals unsuccessful to 97% successful, nearly as large a swing as is possible) I am not aware that any tax journalist has written a sentence about this anomaly.

I wonder whether Andrew Neil is available to interview Sir Jon about this matter in a new TV series? It would certainly make decision makers think a bit harder about their accountability.

etf
Posts: 624
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:25 pm

Re: NRCGT return

Postby etf » Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:46 am

Published NRCGT penalty tax tribunal cases on the Gov' website in years prior to 2019 were as plentiful as West Ham goals under David Moyes (4 a game under his latest tenure for non-football fans).

On checking the Gov' website today it appears that zero NRCGT penalty tribunal cases were published during 2019. Does this suggest HMRC are treating taxpayers even-handedly as they are required to do under the Taxpayers Charter? It appears unlikely, but if anyone still thinks my standpoint is flawed please let me know why.

We also have the Goochiegate case which no one has been able to explain and a movement from 97% NRCGT penalty appeals being unsuccessful to 97% being successful as further fuel for the fire.

I understand Dom Cummins has top civil servants in his sights.Choosing individuals who are able to recognise when taxpayers are not receiving equitable treatment might be a good starting point for those in charge of HMRC.

etf
Posts: 624
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:25 pm

Re: NRCGT return

Postby etf » Tue Feb 04, 2020 10:36 am

There are currently zero published NRCGT tribunal cases for January 2020 on the Gov' website.

If we assume Sir Jon Thompson's nose grows one foot for each month where there are zero published cases, he is currently walking around with a 13 foot hooter. I find it very difficult to understand how HMRC can still claim they are treating taxpayers even-handedly as required by the Taxpayers Charter (yes, I agree my message is stuck in the same repetitive groove, but nobody has been able to explain Goochiegate and all available statistics suggest HMRC has made a U-turn of Copse corner proportions).

I found the following in this month's edition of TaxAdviser (my bold):

In January, the CIOT also wrote to Jim Harra, HMRC's Chief Executive (Sir Jon's replacement), to express our concerns around HMRC's approach in First-tier Tribunal cases, in particular, that the performance of HMRC's representatives has been below the standard expected of a public body. We have been disappointed to note how often the presiding judge has had to reprimand HMRC recently; for example, for failing to draw the tribunal's attention to relevant cases, relying on unpublished cases, acting unreasonably in alleging fraud, and advancing unconvincing arguments.

I am certainly unconvinced by HMRC's assurance that they have dealt with NRCGT taxpayers even-handedly (as a starting point they are currently having to wait 14 weeks for HMRC to answer correspondence).

robbob
Posts: 2898
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:01 pm

Re: NRCGT return

Postby robbob » Tue Feb 04, 2020 11:02 am

If we assume Sir Jon Thompson's nose grows one foot for each month where there are zero published cases, he is currently walking around with a 13 foot hooter.
Lol


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