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Where Taxpayers and Advisers Meet

What to do...

questionsquestions
Posts:3
Joined:Mon Apr 02, 2018 1:28 pm
What to do...

Postby questionsquestions » Mon Apr 02, 2018 1:40 pm

Hi there,

I'm looking to set myself up as self employed, but have become a little confused about whether I'm barking up the wrong tree.

I want to do odd jobs for people, and have a couple of people that have regular work needing to be done, and a number of opportunities for more irregular jobs. I intend to invoice them for my time, and negotiate a specific pay per hour for the regular work, whilst having quotes for more irregular work. The regular work would be paid cash in hand.

From what I've read about worker vs self employed it would seem I fit more into the worker category, since I'd be carrying out the work myself, at a place designated by the owner of a business I'd be working for. I'd also be using their equipment to carry out the job.

Part of what I'm considering venturing into is to be called by companies to cover whilst people are sick or on holiday, but the general theme is to be paid for my time for the odd job, when it arises... Setting up a website and allowing people to book me, or contact for a quote.

Would anyone be able to clarify where this would put me? I just want to ensure I'm on the right side of the tax man.

pawncob
Posts:5090
Joined:Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:06 pm
Location:West Sussex

Re: What to do...

Postby pawncob » Tue Apr 03, 2018 9:29 pm

You're self employed.
Not sure what you mean by "worker" category. Are you proposing that you become an employee of each of your customers?
With a pinch of salt take what I say, but don't exceed your RDA

questionsquestions
Posts:3
Joined:Mon Apr 02, 2018 1:28 pm

Re: What to do...

Postby questionsquestions » Tue Apr 03, 2018 9:42 pm

Thanks for the reply, pawncob.

By worker, I mean employed, as a worker. I've seen some other posts that suggest there are a few things which determine whether an individual is self employed or employed. It would make sense for those that are employing my services to classify me as self employed so that they don't have to pay NI, holiday, etc. But the confusion is to do with what constitutes being employed or self employed. From what I've seen, I fall more under the category for employee based on this:

If you can answer 'Yes' to all of the following questions, it will usually mean you are self-employed.
• Can you hire someone to do the work for you or engage helpers at your own expense?
• Do you risk your own money?
• Do you provide the main items of equipment you need to do your job, not just the small tools many employees provide for themselves?
• Do you agree to do a job for a fixed price regardless of how long the job may take?
• Can you decide what work to do, how and when to do the work and where to provide the services?
• Do you regularly work for a number of different people?
• Do you have to correct unsatisfactory work in your own time and at your own expense?

However, If you can answer 'Yes' to all of the following questions, you are probably an employee.
• Do you have to do the work yourself?
• Can someone tell you at any time what to do, where to carry out the work or when and how to do it?
• Do you work a set amount of hours?
• Can someone move you from task to task?
• Are you paid by the hour, week, or month?
• Can you get overtime pay or bonus payment?

bd6759
Posts:4262
Joined:Sat Feb 01, 2014 3:26 pm

Re: What to do...

Postby bd6759 » Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:55 pm

It's up to you and your "engager" to establish your status, which will be determined by the exact nature of your relationship. All these questions are relevant for each appointment.

robbob
Posts:3228
Joined:Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:01 pm

Re: What to do...

Postby robbob » Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:57 am

If you are doing sporadic work for various private individuals i would say this is deffo self employment and not employment under MOST situations.
Note the risk is more with the engager than you if things are deemed to be the other way round.

As bd6759 points out you and the engager should always discuss and establish your status (to the best of your abilities) before proceeding


That's not to say any individual contract should not be / will not be a separate employment source of income if that task fits more into that category - however that's probably more of a scenario where you would have business customers who are used to dealing with individuals via paye or you get individuals taking you on on a more permanent basis.


Simple example if you clean someones garden once a month they tell you what needs doing and you don't offer any replacement this is still suitable income to include as self employment presuming you have other associated work of this type.

The line would probably be crossed if you were taken on as say a caretaker on say 10 hours per week doing employment type duties.

As bd6759 points out though every contract needs to be thought about and tested as approrpiate, however if its sporadic work for multiple customers i don't see any practicable problems with self employment being used.

questionsquestions
Posts:3
Joined:Mon Apr 02, 2018 1:28 pm

Re: What to do...

Postby questionsquestions » Wed Apr 04, 2018 1:46 pm

Thanks for all the information so far.

The work would mostly be odd jobs, but the regular work I have coming up would be at least 10 hours a week (possibly up to 30) helping a guy out with his business, largely involving food prep for items he'll be selling at the market. As he takes on more markets, there will be more opportunities to work there, which is the largest factor I have in mind regarding whether I'd be considered an employee, but yes, I have no intention of being classified as such with him, as I'd like the flexibility to work elsewhere if/when better opportunities arise.

robbob
Posts:3228
Joined:Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:01 pm

Re: What to do...

Postby robbob » Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:32 am

I have coming up would be at least 10 hours a week (possibly up to 30) helping a guy out with his business, largely involving food prep for items he'll be selling at the market. As he takes on more markets, there will be more opportunities to work there, which is the largest factor I have in mind regarding whether I'd be considered an employee, but yes, I have no intention of being classified as such with him
The rules are not such that you can choose self employment it should be that the facts of the matter support this conclusion.

If you turn up 10 hours per week at an "engagers" premises and do employment type duties where the engager has control over how you work and provides all the tools for the work to be completed i would say that sound more like employment to me.

If you collect the raw materials do the prepping at home using your own tools and equipment and transport the finished product to your customer - that sounds more like self employment.

Anything in the middle is a bit grey unfortunately, the good news though is that as a sole trader the engager is responsible for doing the status tool check so if there is lost employment NI/tax they would chase after them and not you if it were deemed to be the opposite of what you expected.


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