Self assessment tax penalties - help for appeal

[colouk]

Hi all,

Before I start, I know that everything was my fault, I am just trying to see what grounds I have for an appeal. I feel terrible and ashamed already and penalties will severely affect my financial and professional future.

Long story short - apparently I registered for self assessment when full-time student in 2013 for student job didn't actually end up doing. Looking back at emails, in order to sign up to this company, I needed to give them my UTR, so I think I thought it was the tax equivalent of a national insurance number, so nothing significant needing follow up. I was a full time student 2009-2014 then lived and worked abroad 2014-2018.

2019, am back in UK and just set up a limited company and registered for self assessment, my new details triggered post to be sent to my new address regarding the tax years 2013/14, 2014/15, 2015/16 stating that I have over £5k in penalties to pay due to not filing tax returns.

I honestly don't remember filing for self assessment but I clearly did it naively thinking it was just what you do to get paid for student jobs. Of course I accept responsibility there but it was an honest mistake.

I rang HMRC as soon as I got this letter and they said I had to file for these tax years via post and then appeal them by post if I wanted to.

Does anyone have any view on what to focus on in my appeal? I was thinking the fact that I have never actually worked as self-employed during that time, do not owe any tax, and did not intentionally ignore any correspondence or responsibility. HMRC were clearly sending me post to my old university address. Of course the rule is that you should inform them if you move, but in my ignorant student mind, I had not understood that I was under a different tax status.

Also, should I pay them fine then file my returns and then appeal? Or file and appeal and then what to see about the fines?

Another addition is that they told me that tax years since 2016 have been cancelled as they were made aware of my updated situation. This seems odd to me because I never told them I was no longer self-employed since I hadn't realised that I was registered as self-employed in the first place. The only thing I can think of is that I always told the student loan company when I was employed full time and moved address, but then that would have meant my circumstances changed from 2014, not 2016. Also, if they were using student finance details, then surely they would have seen my updated addresses. Any thoughts on this?

Thanks in advance!

[bd6759]

I rang HMRC as soon as I got this letter and they said I had to file for these tax years via post and then appeal them by post if I wanted to.

That is dreadful advice,

Phone HMRC again and explain that you have no tax liability for those years and ask for the returns to be withdrawn.

Quote S8B TMA 1970 and SAM120115 (https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/self-assessment-manual/sam120115)

[etf]

The following article link may also be of interest:

https://www.ft.com/content/bac9a914-9ed6-11e7-8cd4-932067fbf946

[colouk]

I rang HMRC as soon as I got this letter and they said I had to file for these tax years via post and then appeal them by post if I wanted to.

That is dreadful advice,

Phone HMRC again and explain that you have no tax liability for those years and ask for the returns to be withdrawn.

Quote S8B TMA 1970 and SAM120115 (https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/self-assessment-manual/sam120115)

Thanks for the response, I will do that today. The guy on the phone on saturday said something about the fact that those years are 'closed' so he can't edit them.. I assume because it's so long ago. Would this make any difference to them being able to withdraw them?

[colouk]

I rang HMRC as soon as I got this letter and they said I had to file for these tax years via post and then appeal them by post if I wanted to.

That is dreadful advice,

Phone HMRC again and explain that you have no tax liability for those years and ask for the returns to be withdrawn.

Quote S8B TMA 1970 and SAM120115 (https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/self-assessment-manual/sam120115)

Thanks for the response, I will do that today. The guy on the phone on saturday said something about the fact that those years are 'closed' so he can't edit them.. I assume because it's so long ago. Would this make any difference to them being able to withdraw them?

Just spoke to them. Firstly rang the 200 3824 number that was on my penalty letter and tried to get the years withdrawn, especially emphasising the fact that I have never worked as self=employed and was working out of the country for at least 1 full tax year in question. But, again, the guy said I had to file, pay the penalty and then appeal. But since I had some specific questions about why my status had been changed in 2016 since I had not been in touch, he told me to ring a number ending in 200 31310 and what a world of difference that made. The woman was far more knowledgeable and several times put me on hold to speak to a superior and she has cancelled all the years and cancelled the penalties. I could cry I'm so relieved. Thanks a lot for encouraging me to get the years withdrawn. Eternally grateful!

[Jholm]

Happy to hear you got it sorted. This is a typical example of how different HMRC advisors react differently to the same issue. Also the way you word things can make a huge difference to the outcome.