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Where Taxpayers and Advisers Meet

Rent - Self Assessment Quick Question

bobbybobson
Posts:15
Joined:Mon Aug 31, 2020 10:53 am
Rent - Self Assessment Quick Question

Postby bobbybobson » Sun Oct 11, 2020 3:54 pm

If my parents are renting a property and this is their only means of income do they each need to log in online to separate HMRC accounts (get new login details for each of them) or is there a way that they can just log in once under one account and file a joint return?

It's difficult enough for most individual young people to set up a HMRC account, but for two elderly people who hardly use the internet it's a very long-winded process. They were doing a "short tax return" by post, but now being advised to do it online.

bd6759
Posts:4262
Joined:Sat Feb 01, 2014 3:26 pm

Re: Rent - Self Assessment Quick Question

Postby bd6759 » Sun Oct 11, 2020 4:52 pm

No requirement to file online. Why do they want to if they are unable to?

maths
Posts:8507
Joined:Wed Aug 06, 2008 3:25 pm

Re: Rent - Self Assessment Quick Question

Postby maths » Sun Oct 11, 2020 5:50 pm

Ignore the advice and simply continue to file a paper Short Return until forced to do otherwise. 31 October deadline.

Negotiating HMRC's on line filing re self assessment is for the so-called "uninitiated" not as straight forward as often made out.

Ray Coman
Posts:24
Joined:Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:41 am
Location:The Gallery, 14 Upland Road, London, SE22 9EE
Contact:

Re: Rent - Self Assessment Quick Question

Postby Ray Coman » Sun Oct 11, 2020 6:40 pm

If the rental profit per person is less than £1,000 it does not need to be reported. If between £1,000 and £2,500 profit per person, it is possible to ask HMRC to collect tax via PAYE. If more they could consider appointing a tax agent who will be able to file online for them.

It is one Tax Return and therefore one HMRC tax account per person. In certain cases power of attorney arrangements could be considered.
Raphael Coman, ACCA, CTA
Tax Accountant

darthblingbling
Posts:698
Joined:Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:09 pm

Re: Rent - Self Assessment Quick Question

Postby darthblingbling » Sun Oct 11, 2020 9:50 pm

Ray, I think you're confusing rental income and profits in your £1000 deminimis statement?

If your rental income is £1000 or less during the tax year then you don't need to report it as you get an allowance of £1000, so the taxable profit is zero.

If it's £1000 or less after allowable expenses or the allowance (can't claim both), then it still needs to be reported as it's taxable income.

bobbybobson
Posts:15
Joined:Mon Aug 31, 2020 10:53 am

Re: Rent - Self Assessment Quick Question

Postby bobbybobson » Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:25 pm

So back to my original question... is there a way that they can just log in once under one account and file a joint return? I.e. is there a way of consolidating it into something like a partnership/business as a single entity, rather than separate tax returns for each individual? I assume not. The rent income is £15,000 a year

bd6759
Posts:4262
Joined:Sat Feb 01, 2014 3:26 pm

Re: Rent - Self Assessment Quick Question

Postby bd6759 » Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:50 pm

Partnerships file a partnership return, and each partner has to file a return as well.

No. You cannot file jointly.

Each can submit a paper return. Nothing has changed in that respect.

(NB. If they are unable or incapable of logging in to file an individual return, how would being able to log in to file a joint return help them?)

bobbybobson
Posts:15
Joined:Mon Aug 31, 2020 10:53 am

Re: Rent - Self Assessment Quick Question

Postby bobbybobson » Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:26 am

They are "able" but the process takes a while as it is inefficient and illogical - why fill in the same form twice with mostly the same details? Logically (should not think logically for tax or finance relating to politics) there would be a system/tax return for property rent for a couple/household whereby you enter the details once (i.e. £15,000 income etc) but also enter within that return the household and names it applies to. Otherwise the time allocated to the process of filling in the return becomes 90% entering personal details such as UTR number/name/address/login details/hassle logging in for elderly etc and 10% income details such as a very simple rental setup of a property.

bobbybobson
Posts:15
Joined:Mon Aug 31, 2020 10:53 am

Re: Rent - Self Assessment Quick Question

Postby bobbybobson » Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:40 am

I do think this was the point of the "simple tax return" that they seem to be doing away with. My suggestion is that if you qualify for a simple tax return of some kind (i.e.only means of income being from rental of property for a family or couple - often elderly) you log in as a couple/household and fill in a simple form once, but list who it applies to within the form with just NI number. A government should not need a load of different numbers relating to an individual - one number, a NI number is enough. And one username (should be NI number) and a password is enough. But anyway this is way down the list of my demands for an efficient government within the current political climate. I was initially enquiring as to whether these things were possible, and now have the answer, so thanks and that's all from me. Cheers

bd6759
Posts:4262
Joined:Sat Feb 01, 2014 3:26 pm

Re: Rent - Self Assessment Quick Question

Postby bd6759 » Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:47 am

Maybe we could turn the clock back to 1991 where a wife did not complete a tax return at all and was not entitled to a personal allowance, and where the husband was required to declare her income and pay her tax.

Rightly or wrongly, we are stuck with the concept that married couples are independently taxed.


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