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Where Taxpayers and Advisers Meet

5TH SEISS GRANT AND TURNOVER

Haydon1
Posts:8
Joined:Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:53 am
5TH SEISS GRANT AND TURNOVER

Postby Haydon1 » Tue Aug 10, 2021 11:27 am

Hello
HMRC states that to claim the 5th grant you will need to work out your turnover figure for 2020-2021 and that this can be found by "refering to your 2020-2021 Self Assessment tax return if this has been completed".
I have looked at my completed self assessment tax return for 20/21 and the turnover figure in box 15 (SA103F) is the turnover figure for 2019-2020.

The turnover figure for 20/21 will be on my 21/22 tax return.
If I follow the guidance and use the turnover figure on my 20/21 tax return then this is not the correct figure for my actual turnover for 20/21 ?

My accounting year is 1 May- 30 April

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you

Haydon1
Posts:8
Joined:Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:53 am

Re: 5TH SEISS GRANT AND TURNOVER

Postby Haydon1 » Thu Aug 19, 2021 1:54 pm

Hello
UPDATE

HMRC WEBCHAT can not advise on what figures to use and said to contact the SA helpline, went through to the SEISS helpline by mistake who asked why the turnover figure at box 15 on the 2020/2021 is the turnover for the previous year when it should be the turnover figure for 2020/2021! They advised to phone the SA helpline who said they did not know the answer and to go back to the SEISS helpline as they can go through to a specialist support team. They did not go through to this team and basically just read the information word for word that is on the .gov site which says to use the figures from the 2021 tax return if already completed . So if the 2021 tax return had not already been completed I would be using a different figure THE ACTUAL TURNOVER FIGURE FOR the year ending April 2021.
I surley can not be the only person that has already completed a 20/21 tax return, who also has a year end that straggles 2 tax years and therfore have a turnover figure on the tax return that is different to actual turnover?

Going round in circles whilst banging head against a brick wall :(

bd6759
Posts:3586
Joined:Sat Feb 01, 2014 3:26 pm

Re: 5TH SEISS GRANT AND TURNOVER

Postby bd6759 » Thu Aug 19, 2021 2:38 pm

You must work out your turnover for the 12 months ended 5 April 2021.

Obviously this is different from your accounting date so you can’t use your 20-21 tax return and will have to do some sums.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/work-out-your-turnover-so-you-can-claim-the-fifth-seiss-grant

Haydon1
Posts:8
Joined:Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:53 am

Re: 5TH SEISS GRANT AND TURNOVER

Postby Haydon1 » Thu Aug 26, 2021 5:06 pm

Hello and thanks for the reply.

I have no problem calculating my turnover from 6th April 2020 - 5th April 2021 I already have this figure BUT the problem I have is the figure that the guidance tells me to use (see below copied from guidance) is the figure on the 2020/2021 tax return, if this has already been completed.

"Where to find your turnover figures
You can:

refer to your 2020 to 2021 Self Assessment tax return if you’ve completed it"


The return has already been completed but the figure for turnover, because our accounting year is 1st May - 30 April is the turnover figure for 2019-2020 on the return not the turnover for 2020/2021 which will be reported on the 2021/2022 return.
Apparentley, according to those people at HMRC if I put anything different than the turnover figure we have reported on the 2020/2021 return it will flag something up and I can only assume "your figures don't tally police" will be knocking on my door :o

bd6759
Posts:3586
Joined:Sat Feb 01, 2014 3:26 pm

Re: 5TH SEISS GRANT AND TURNOVER

Postby bd6759 » Thu Aug 26, 2021 10:23 pm

You seem to be aware that you were given duff advice from HMRC.

Move on and report the correct amount

maths
Posts:8283
Joined:Wed Aug 06, 2008 3:25 pm

Re: 5TH SEISS GRANT AND TURNOVER

Postby maths » Fri Aug 27, 2021 5:34 pm

As a sole trader with a 30 April year end means that for the tax year 20/21 the figure for t/o is for the period 1 May 2019 to 30 April 2020.

Although this means that the t/o actually relates to the period 1 May 2019 to 30 April 2020 does not mean that it is not the t/o for the tax year 20/21.

HMRC wish to simply used figures filed in a tax return.

Only where no 20/21 tax return has been filed is it then necessary (for the 5Th SEISS) to actually calculate t/o for the period 6 April 2020 to
5 April 2021.

bd6759
Posts:3586
Joined:Sat Feb 01, 2014 3:26 pm

Re: 5TH SEISS GRANT AND TURNOVER

Postby bd6759 » Sat Aug 28, 2021 10:24 am

Maths, that is not correct.

The question is about turnover for the purposes of SEISS 5, which is not the same as the basis period for the tax return.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/work-out-your-turnover-so-you-can-claim-the-fifth-seiss-grant

Haydon1
Posts:8
Joined:Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:53 am

Re: 5TH SEISS GRANT AND TURNOVER

Postby Haydon1 » Sat Aug 28, 2021 1:43 pm

Thank you for the replies.

bd6759 if maths is wrong and you are correct, what is the correct figure to use?
The 2020/2021 tax return figure adjusted to include turnover calculated from the 6th April-30th April on the 2019/2020 tax return and adjusted to exclude turnover from the 6th April - 30th April calculated from the 2020/2021 tax return which would be 187,822k
or the turnover figure of 114k adjusted to include turnover from 6th April- 30th April 2020 and adjusted to exclude turnover form the 6th April 2021 - 30th April 2021 which would be 119k
or as "maths" has said use the figure of 187k taken from the filed 2020/2021 tax return?


Tax return box 15 2019/2020 199K (turnover 01 May 2018 - 30th April 2019)
Tax return box 15 2020/2021 187k (turnover 01 May 2019 - 30th April 2020)

Turnover 01 May - 30th April 2020 - 2021 114k

Thank you for your time.


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