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Where Taxpayers and Advisers Meet

Returning to UK and leaving again.

bubu
Posts: 66
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2008 3:24 pm

Returning to UK and leaving again.

Postby bubu » Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:49 am

Hello,

I left UK in November 2011 to work full-time overseas and thus became non-resident. I left that employent on March 31st 2018, but didn't return to the UK until end of April due to having to tie up loose ends after living so far from home etc. I was only in UK on holiday for 17 days in 2017/2018. As I entered the UK at the end of April 2018, does it mean that I was non-resident for 2017/2018, despite my employent for the overseas employer ending on March 31st? Upon my return, I stayed in UK over 6 months (I guess that means I became UK tax resident again in 2018/2019?) but didn't work and always intended to return overseas to work, which is what I have since done.

Additionally, I want to know, if indeed I was non-resident, for 2017/2018, a) is it important to claim split-year treatment for the upcoming 2018/2019 tax return seeing as I wouldn't owe any UK tax on my foreign earnings as I was non-resident for 2017/2018? and b) If I even qualify for split year treatment, would I put the date I re-entered the UK, or the date I again departed to work overseas in December 2018? or c) if I stay out of the UK until April 6th 2020, to complete a whole tax year from December 2018 to say May 2020, then it doesn't matter as I would again be non-resident again and therefore not liable to pay UK tax on my foreign earnings?

Also, as I complete annual tax returns, is it necessary for me to complete a P85 form to say I left the country to work overseas again in December 2018? What is the benefit of completing the P85 form if I already complete a tax return?

Finally, can I claim tax relief for my expenses in order to get the job: train ticket to Embassy, visa costs, document legalisation, single flight ticket to Asia, etc, which was all required to attain the job and travel overseas to begin the employment? (I found the job by myself and was not sent from UK. I didn't work in the UK for the 6 months I was back there)

I appreciate any information which can answer the many questions I have asked. Thank you.

darthblingbling
Posts: 253
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:09 pm

Re: Returning to UK and leaving again.

Postby darthblingbling » Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:21 am

You're likely resident assuming you didn't have a home overseas during that 6 month window you returned to the UK.

Split year will depend on the facts and is automatic. A lot more information is required to get the correct date for split year. But I doubt you would get split year for the departure as generally you need to be tax resident for the previous tax year. You may need to look at treaty relief instead.

In terms of arrival I think only case 4 would even potentially apply, so it would be the date you only began to have UK home.

P85 isn't strictly necessary I believe as you don't appear to have any UK sourced income.

In terms of expenses, no these are not allowable. They would only potentially be allowable if it was a secondment and you're being sent to a temporary workplace.

bubu
Posts: 66
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2008 3:24 pm

Re: Returning to UK and leaving again.

Postby bubu » Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:02 am

Thanks for the reply darthblingbling.

Actually, I have a rented property in the UK, hence the reason why I complete SA tax returns every year. However, the profit is well under the annual tax free allowance.

As I came back to UK after the 2017/2018 tax year had ended, would I be right in saying my income from my work overseas would automatically be exempt and therefore I would not need to pay UK tax on it considering I was non-resident in UK for a number of years before my return to the UK at end of April 2018?

Also, seeing as I left the UK again in December 2018, as long as I remain non-resident until April 6th 2020, would that automatically mean my foreign earnings between December 2018 and beyond April 6th 2020 for example, would not be taxed in the UK??


Much appreciated.

darthblingbling
Posts: 253
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:09 pm

Re: Returning to UK and leaving again.

Postby darthblingbling » Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:30 am

Earnings in 2017/18 if non resident would only taxed in the UK if UK sourced. I.e. did you work at all in the UK?

Earnings from December 2018 to 5 April 2019 would not be automatically exempt as you will likely be resident. However, likely treaty relief may be available, but only if you are tax resident in the other country.

Earnings after 5 April 2019 may be non taxable again if you are non resident for 2019/20 and perform no work in the UK.

bubu
Posts: 66
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2008 3:24 pm

Re: Returning to UK and leaving again.

Postby bubu » Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:20 pm

Thanks again darthblingbling.

No, I did not work at all for the 6 months I was in the UK as I knew I would be going abroad to work again. I just didn't expect the visa to take as long as it did! The only income I receive in the UK is rent from my property, but I am already registered as a non-resident landlord due to my history of living and working overseas, and I take it there is no need to reapply for this status.


Why wouldn't the December 2018 to April 5th 2019 escape UK tax IF I stay in Asia until April 6th 2020? I had thought that upon leaving the UK in December 2018, that I would become non-resident again for tax purposes from that date. Particularly if I stay living and working full-time overseas until beyong April 6th 2020. Am I right? Do i need to send HMRC a P85, or would it suffice to phone HMRC or just tell HMRC that I moved overseas again on my tax return when I complete my tax return?

Oh, and would I need to download and fill-out the Foreign supplement pages of the tax return considering I don't expect to expect to have to pay any tax on my overseas income up until May 2018 due to being non-resident for many years until my return? I take it I do not need to complete the Foreign tax return supplement pages...

Many thanks!

darthblingbling
Posts: 253
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:09 pm

Re: Returning to UK and leaving again.

Postby darthblingbling » Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:57 pm

You're UK resident for the whole of 2018/19. You cannot claim split year when you leave as cases 1 to 3 require you to be also UK resident for 2016/17.

Therefore you can only claim relief under a tax treaty for the rest of the tax year but this would require you to be tax resident in the other country.

For the sake of arguement, which country is it you moved to and worked from December 2018?

maths
Posts: 7550
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2008 3:25 pm

Re: Returning to UK and leaving again.

Postby maths » Fri Apr 05, 2019 4:42 pm

It seems you are running two threads on this topic. I repeat my comments below posted re your other post:

I assume you were non-resident for tax year 17/18.

For the tax year 18/19 you were resident.

18/19 is split tax year if any of the Cases 4 to 8 are satisfied.

None of Cases 5, 6, 7 or 8 is satisfied.

If Case 4 is satisfied then 17/18 is a split year; if not, 17/18 does not qualify as a split year.

darthblingbling
Posts: 253
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:09 pm

Re: Returning to UK and leaving again.

Postby darthblingbling » Fri Apr 05, 2019 4:55 pm

I should clarify that in my post I mean 17/18 and not 18/19

darthblingbling
Posts: 253
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:09 pm

Re: Returning to UK and leaving again.

Postby darthblingbling » Fri Apr 05, 2019 4:56 pm

Also he's asking about split year for leaving the UK, which I feel he cannot get given his circumstances

bubu
Posts: 66
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2008 3:24 pm

Re: Returning to UK and leaving again.

Postby bubu » Sat Apr 06, 2019 4:51 am

Thanks for the replies.

I am a bit confused.

I was non-resident in the UK in 17/18 as I worked overseas full-time, and I returned to the UK in May '18 which is tax year 18/19. I worked in China. So how is it that I can claim split year for 17/18, if I was non-resident in 17/18? I would have thought that I could claim split year in 18/19 as I returned to the UK in May 2018? I thought split year is for the year one returns to the UK. Is that right?

Re: tax liability on my overseas income, I don't presume I would be liable. Would my overseas income be taxable in the UK seeing as I was non-resident for tax purposes for over 6 years until May 2018?

Darthblingbling, could you please clarify why your meant 17/18? I am confused.

Also, seeing as one becomes non-resident when they leave the UK to live and work full-time overseas, haven't I become non-resident in the UK for tax purposes again? Is this correct? I thought that as long as I remain overseas in full-time employment in China for a full tax year, therefore until April 6th 2020 that I would become non-resident for tax purposes. I'd really like clarification on this point.

I appreciate the replies so much.


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