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Where Taxpayers and Advisers Meet

TRS date of trust?

petergibbinson
Posts:159
Joined:Wed Aug 06, 2008 3:53 pm
TRS date of trust?

Postby petergibbinson » Fri Sep 08, 2023 5:24 pm

Reasonably simple question but ....
Land bought by 3 individuals (me being one of them) in 2015 tenants in common - legal and beneficial owners were the same.

Although an express trust, because same legal and beneficial owners, no need to register (according to HMRC rules)

Few weeks ago deed of trust gifting my share of the land to my spouse - hence now need to register...the TRS registration asks for date the trust was set up.
Strictly speaking a trust was established in 2015 (tenants in common) - do I put for the date of the trust -
The date of the change in beneficial owners (August 2023) or the date the land was originally purchased as tenants in common (2015)

I can argue both ways - but the earlier date looks like I'm late in registering - but it didn't need to be registered until 2 weeks ago when the beneficial owners changed...the legislation is horrible by the way...

pawncob
Posts:5083
Joined:Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:06 pm
Location:West Sussex

Re: TRS date of trust?

Postby pawncob » Sat Sep 09, 2023 11:24 am

I think the first "trust" was a deemed trust, only necessary because of Land Registry rules.
The actual trust was established when you made the transfer to your spouse.
With a pinch of salt take what I say, but don't exceed your RDA

AGoodman
Posts:1723
Joined:Fri May 16, 2014 3:47 pm

Re: TRS date of trust?

Postby AGoodman » Thu Sep 14, 2023 10:02 am

I agree the legislation is horrible (written by people who struggled with basic concepts of trust law) and you could easily argue both ways.

I'd definitely put the latter date as you made a new deed so it created a new bare trust. It's just easier all round and I cannot see HMRC ever caring as it makes no difference (the earlier period was covered by an exclusion under Sch 3A of the 2017 Regs).

maths
Posts:8506
Joined:Wed Aug 06, 2008 3:25 pm

Re: TRS date of trust?

Postby maths » Thu Sep 14, 2023 4:46 pm

I agree with pawncob and goodman.

The trust which requires registration is the trust whose date of set up is needed ie 2023.


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