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Where Taxpayers and Advisers Meet

HMRC-is it time to call the Army in?

etf
Posts:784
Joined:Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:25 pm
Re: HMRC-is it time to call the Army in?

Postby etf » Tue Jun 29, 2021 7:49 am

Well the 28 June deadline has come and gone and still no response from HMRC. That means they have had 5 months to respond to a non-complex piece of post but haven't. The national press are having a field day with public servants and the breaking of codes, but in Taxationweb land things are still eerily silent. Are the editorial staff too far removed from the coal face to write about what really matters to the public and agents?

AGoodman
Posts:1308
Joined:Fri May 16, 2014 3:47 pm

Re: HMRC-is it time to call the Army in?

Postby AGoodman » Fri Jul 09, 2021 2:43 pm

I still want to know if HMRC has Crossed the Line with ESC A19?

The poll has been open since 2012.

(and i still don't know what ESC A19 is)

etf
Posts:784
Joined:Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:25 pm

Re: HMRC-is it time to call the Army in?

Postby etf » Thu Jul 15, 2021 4:45 pm

Still no reply from HMRC, despite a telephone prod a week or two ago. Will I receive a reply before the 6 month anniversary.....a couple of weeks to go? I was told I should have received a reply but the correspondence had been put in a wrong pile.

And two links for ESC A19:

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-did-not-act

https://www.litrg.org.uk/tax-guides/employment/what-if-i-do-not-pay-enough-tax/extra-statutory-concession-a19

etf
Posts:784
Joined:Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:25 pm

Re: HMRC-is it time to call the Army in?

Postby etf » Tue Aug 03, 2021 10:03 am

Over six months after submitting a letter to HMRC I still have not received a reply despite 3 chasing phone calls. It appears an incorrect 2019/20 calculation has recently been issued to my new client without any reply to the questions in my letter being considered/actioned.

On further digging in a fourth chasing call it appears my client received a taxable expense payment in 2012 which seemingly has been included in his code for each following tax year even though no subsequent P11Ds have been submitted by his employer. I'm not aware how HMRC systems work, but surely somebody should update an individual's code number based on the latest available P11D submission? . This failure appears to have been going on for nearly a decade and despite specifically questioning the coding restriction in my January 2021 letter the 2019/20 calculation once again included it.

The word shouted out loud by the Danish cyclist after crashing into the British rider this morning springs to mind (and at the same volume....it seemingly translates quite well from Danish into English).

etf
Posts:784
Joined:Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:25 pm

Re: HMRC-is it time to call the Army in?

Postby etf » Fri Aug 06, 2021 2:14 pm

Just gleaned information confirming that the tax office in Cardiff has not processed any paper self-assessment tax returns submitted for the 2020/21 tax year and are unlikely to do so until later this month at the earliest because of man/woman power issues (April, May, June, July and August). Does HMRC have a plan to catch up/could Taxationweb write an article at least highlighting that there are issues to be considered here?

etf
Posts:784
Joined:Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:25 pm

Re: HMRC-is it time to call the Army in?

Postby etf » Tue Aug 10, 2021 9:23 am

On further digging in a fourth chasing call it appears my client received a taxable expense payment in 2012 which seemingly has been included in his code for each following tax year even though no subsequent P11Ds have been submitted by his employer. I'm not aware how HMRC systems work, but surely somebody should update an individual's code number based on the latest available P11D submission? . This failure appears to have been going on for nearly a decade and despite specifically questioning the coding restriction in my January 2021 letter the 2019/20 calculation once again included it.

Fair play to HMRC as yesterday I received a p800 calculation for 2019/20 which included overpayments for all indate prior tax years from 2017/18 onwards. My attention turned to all the tax years from 2012 that are out of date where my new client overpaid small amounts of tax seemingly because of HMRC system failures. I found the following which may be of use. I'll write a letter unless anyone can see a flaw in this idea:


If you think you have overpaid tax in tax years that are ‘closed’ to claims, there is a rule known as Extra-statutory Concession B41 which can allow HMRC to repay tax for those earlier years.

This concession only applies in situations where HMRC or another government department, such as the Department for Work and Pensions, have made an error in your tax affairs and where there is no doubt about the facts of the case.

The relevant part of the concession reads as follows:

‘...repayments of tax will be made in respect of claims made outside the statutory time limit where an over-payment of tax has arisen because of an error by HMRC or another Government Department, and where there is no dispute or doubt as to the facts...'

In our experience, it is rare for HMRC to grant this concession so you will need to set out clear evidence, as to what the error was which resulted in you paying too much tax.

We have produced an example letter that you can use to write to HMRC regarding a B41 repayment.

etf
Posts:784
Joined:Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:25 pm

Re: HMRC-is it time to call the Army in?

Postby etf » Thu Aug 19, 2021 8:43 am

In 1969 Cass Elliot sang a song including a lyric "it's getting better every day". Sadly this does not apply to HMRC postal reply services. I've just chased two letters (which HMRC received) dated 8 March 2021. The lady I spoke to said she would put a referral in for me and I should expect a reply within 8 weeks. That could mean it takes HMRC 7 1/2 months to reply to post.

etf
Posts:784
Joined:Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:25 pm

Re: HMRC-is it time to call the Army in?

Postby etf » Sun Aug 22, 2021 10:44 am

If I were in charge of HMRC (I admit that is probably a scary thought for some/there may well be operating reasons that make what I am going to suggest a non-starter) with work flows at least six months behind where they should be, I'd be urgently reviewing ways of attempting to turn the backlog of work around. I've just called HMRC as my own work is behind (following family health issues) in an attempt to catch up. If I've understood the recorded message correctly HMRC is shut at weekends. Surely when needs must staff should be offered voluntary weekend overtime? It would be helpful if HMRC could publish a plan with expected timeframe to get things back on track.

someone
Posts:522
Joined:Mon Feb 13, 2017 10:09 am

Re: HMRC-is it time to call the Army in?

Postby someone » Sun Aug 22, 2021 6:56 pm

I do wonder what is going to happen when MTDfIT goes live in April '23

Assuming each of the 4.8 million people who will have to do their first submission between 6th Jul and 4th August need to make one call to HMRC and each call takes 10 minutes, then my back of envelope calc suggests they'll need 5000 staff minimum. (based on 40 hours a week for four weeks)

etf
Posts:784
Joined:Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:25 pm

Re: HMRC-is it time to call the Army in?

Postby etf » Mon Aug 23, 2021 8:37 am

someone,

the most galling point is that people predict and point out what is going to happen (often very accurately-see public NRCGT regime consultation predictions before it was introduced). When the proverbial hits the fan the Government offer a knighthood for shambolic customer service to HMRC's leader and the greasy pole circular process starts again.

If you vote me in as leader of HMRC, I promise to listen to considered debate and not accept a knighthood for the marvellous job I will perform (anything has to be better than what is currently happening....although I've just spoken to a very polite gentleman who has offered exemplary service on a call so there are still good nuggets out there).

PS-I've diarised for July 2023 to pat you on the back for your accurate assessment.

PPS-there is a conundrum for HMRC here...if they manage to claw back 6 months work backlog without weekend work/extra staff, people will ask 'well why don't you work at that speed all the time?'


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