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Where Taxpayers and Advisers Meet

HMRC-is it time to call the Army in?

Joined:Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:25 pm
Re: HMRC-is it time to call the Army in?

Postby etf » Wed Apr 24, 2024 8:14 am

I am officially insane because I am posting the same issues over and over again expecting HMRC to resolve them....remember Sir Jim's solution was to close the telephone lines...he's not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy!

Posted 2 months ago by neil groom

RRSN : despite the HMRC reply above, I doubt that chasing HMRC by phone any further will get you anywhere.
I had to make a formal complaint to get my refund finally issued after 6 months of waiting. I was given no explanation, no apology, and I would recommend that you escalate your case by complaining and/or getting your MP involved.

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results"

Joined:Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:25 pm

Re: HMRC-is it time to call the Army in?

Postby etf » Thu Apr 25, 2024 8:45 am

HMRC chief disappointed over helpline U-turn

Suggest he tries contacting HMRC and then he'll really learn the meaning of disappointment. He just doesn't get that people waiting over a year for refunds, correspondence to be answered and a complaints department that doesn't function is unacceptable. Meanwhile he is spending millions on MTD4IT that could have been used to fund an adequate service. We really need people who deal with HMRC on a day to day basis to question him. I suspect after an hour of quizzing he would be toast (HMRC's response below says it all).

General Tax telephone lines not answered
Posted about a year ago by

What other option is there to speak to an HMRC agent please ?
Number ending 3300 - after going through security questions for 9.06 minutes, the line cut off.
Number ending 3310 was held for 1 hr 10.47 without answer
Chat never seems available
I do not have this time to spend on unsuccessful attempts to obtain answers that I am sure will just take minutes.

Posted about a year ago by HMRC Admin 8


If you have a query for Income Tax or Self Asessment those are the two numbers you would use.

Thank you.

Joined:Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:25 pm

Re: HMRC-is it time to call the Army in?

Postby etf » Fri Apr 26, 2024 7:02 am

Another cohort of satisfied HMRC 'customers':

Self assessment ''not captured''
Posted 3 months ago by wlk385

Dear Sir or Madam,

I've finally managed to get hold of the HMRC SA helpline with respect to the following query, where you asked me to contact SA team (

I've learned that my SA, submitted and received on 26 November 2023 (!!!), per my online HMRC account, was ''not captured'' by the system, meaning that HMRC does not see it as submitted at all (!!!). I was also told that according to the internal guidance, SA team member on the line can't do anything and can only pass the case to the internal team, who will respond in April, at the earliest (!!!)

Putting aside the fact I will likely by (wrongly) charged a late filling penalty and that HMRC is due to refund an overpaid tax to me (not insignificant £3,5k) - in what world can one submit (and receive a receipt confirmation) and still wait half a year for HMRC to graciously take interest in my tax affairs??? This is so wrong on so many levels, including, also, that SA team member on the line could not explain to me why the filling was ''not captured''. What's the point???
Posted 3 months ago by wlk385

Can anyone at HMRC here respond, please? This is getting beyond frustrating.

Posted 3 months ago by

Same problem here. This is the first time I've managed to find someone with the same issue.

26th Oct: Submitted with registered accounting software, confirmation by IR Mark number
24th Nov: I contacted by phone. They said they would 'push for capture' immediately and my balance will show the next day
30th Nov: Contacted by phone again. Told there was a problem and I will receive a response by 2nd of Jan
5th Jan: Contacted by phone again. It still hasn't been captured, and I will hear more by April

On every call there was a real lack of clarity and a bit of evasiveness in them even describing what the problem might be or saying sorry. On my last call I asked if I could receive a written letter saying I would be exempt from late penalties because it's their problem, and I was shockingly told that HMRC cannot write letters. When I put this to their (much quicker) Twitter/X help team I was told this was incorrect and they can indeed send such a letter.

The whole thing is a complete mess and although I'm not due a refund like yourself, I am worried about having to go through a lengthy appeal process when I have to dispute any fines and penalties I receive for both late submission AND late payment.

Let me know if you have anything you want to ask me.

@HMRC - Please help us get this sorted!

Posted 3 months ago by HMRC Admin 20

Hi wlk385,

I am sorry there was an issue capturing your online tax return. As advised when you contacted HMRC this wil be referred to a speacialist team to review and update the record. Once processed it will show the original filing date so late filing penalties will not apply. Once processed if you have overpaid this will show on your account and be available for repayment. I apologise in the delay in getting your tax return processed we currently have a backlog of claims which we have deployed extra resources to deal with.

Thank you.

Posted 3 months ago by

I have the same issue (SATR submitted but not captured) and thought I'd post in here as well, as I haven't found many people with the issue when searching but I assume there must be lots of others, given how long we're having to wait and there's a 'Capture Team'.

I'm also due a refund of £1,200 (less than you wlk385 but particularly in need of it at the moment due to a very protracted house sale!).

26 Oct 2023: Submitted via online account (3.5 months before the deadline). Also notice it's the same date as you wlk385, maybe something went wrong that day!
3 Nov 2023: Contacted via chat. They said they would refer the issue and I would hear by the 31 Jan 2024
16 Jan 2024: Contacted via chat to see if there was an update. They said they would chase and also confirmed I absolutely would not be charged a late filing penalty, which is good.
8 Feb 2024: Still nothing, so contacted via chat again (and was almost told off for contacting again). Was told "Your case is being reviewed by a specialist team We currently have a backlog of claims which we have deployed extra resources to deal with While the work is ongoing to clear these cases were are unable to progress chase your claim", similar to HMRC Admin 20's comments above (though, I note the apology from you HMRC Admin 20, which makes a nice change, as I've not had any sort of apology).

Why can you not give people a timeframe or some indication, e.g., the size of the backlog? I can only assume you think people would go mad. But I tell you what makes people go crazy: giving them absolutely no indication of how long they need to wait for something, where their issue is in a queue, etc. If you were more transparent with people, I think you'd receive a better reception.

As lm93 says, it's a complete mess and is really demoralising. It's also a terrible reward for submitting your tax return early, which is something you encourage. You were very quick to take my money when you (incorrectly) thought I owed you though.


Posted about a month ago by Gabelle

Hi, same issue here, my accountant submitted my tax return in Jan, and as per their calculation I owe money but my HRMC account says I owe nothing. I called HRMC and was told my return has been "logged" but not "captured" and someone would call me back within 2 weeks: no one did.
In parallel my accountant spoke with an HRMC agent who said they need to go through the tax return and enter the figures onto their system (what does that mean, they do everything manually???) and then will issue out a new tax return, which "should fix everything." That still hasn't been done and they couldn't give a deadline.... what is happening???

Posted about a month ago by HMRC Admin 25

Hi Gabelle,

We are hear of the delay capturing your return.

This usually occurs when there's an issue with the information provided on your return, which we need to verify on our systems, or contact you to clarify.

While we can't provide an individual timescale for an update, please continue to check your personal tax account for updates, or contact us by webchat or phone here:

Self Assessment: general enquiries

Thank you.

Posted 15 days ago by Paul Willis


I would like to add them I'm in the same situation and that it's very stressful,

My accountant submitted my before the end of December and received an IR Mark as proof of receipt. After a few day sit showed as submitted on my account, but then the calculation never showed and my account didn't update. I called HMRC and they just told me they hadn't received my return and blamed me and my accountant for it. They said my agent should withdraw it and resubmit as they'd not submitted it properly. They weren't interested in the IR Mark which proves receipt of the tax return for some reason.

My SA was withdrawn then resubmitted on the 8th of Jan, I received an IR mark as proof of submission yet again. To this date my return does not even show that it has been submitted and still shows as LATE. I am receiving late penalty reminders and expect to move into the £10 per day fines at the end of this month.

My accountant called HMRC multiple times and was told that it needed to be fixed by their internal team and they cannot say when this will be due to a huge backlog. They did say not to worry about fines, but with no timescale and with penalty notices arriving in my mail it's not a very nice experience. If I call HMRC myself they just say they've not received my SA return, yet my accountant gets a different story entirely. This is very stressful.

I appealed my first fine and received a letter saying that I didn't state why I submitted my tax return late, which obviously I did. It also said they can't process my appeal as I haven't yet submitted my tax return. Absolute nonsense.

HMRC will owe me around £1,800 as a tax refund as I overpaid payments on account last year. Given that it's going to take many months to even have my SA processed, I'm looking at maybe 6 months, a year before I get my tax refund? What an absolute mess.

Joined:Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:25 pm

Re: HMRC-is it time to call the Army in?

Postby etf » Fri Apr 26, 2024 9:01 am

Sir Jim should note the parable of the Taxi firm owner who blew his budget on a new shiny Ferrari. This spending meant he had no funds to service his fleet of Ford taxis. They all broke down and customers complained when taxis failed to arrive and that was the end of the Taxi firm.

Joined:Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:25 pm

Re: HMRC-is it time to call the Army in?

Postby etf » Fri Apr 26, 2024 10:50 am

By Jason Croke
26th Apr 2024 10:13
I did an online VAT deregistration for client, all up to date with returns, no debts, never a late return.

Went online, clicked the "cancel reg" button, answered the questions, submit, the menu option for "cancel reg" changes to "pending".

2 days later I go back to check, instead of seeing "pending" or "dereg confirmed" I see that the original submission was not processed as the option for me to deregister was still there. Status had changed from pending back to "cancel reg?".

So I submit the dereg again.

Note that at no stage do I or the client get any sort of message or email to inform that the original dereg was rejected, nor was a reason given online as to why rejected.

Client gets a later 10 days after my first dereg attempt. Letter says according to HMRC records they cannot allow the dereg. That's it, no explanation as to the issue, no right of appeal offered either. My client has ceased to trade but were they still trading they could have stopped charging VAT based on my submission only to discover 10 days later they are still registered!

Calls to client to reassure, calls to HMRC helpline who could not tell me the basis of rejection.

Client receives another letter 10 days after my second dereg attempt and HMRC have deregistered the client, happy days! But nothing changed between my first and second attempt, my answers on the form were the same, so why did my first dereg attempt fail? Who knows?

But a simple 15 minute online click job ends up being a couple of hours, a pointless call to HMRC helpline that could have been dealt with if that letter had been on the clients or agents message/gateway.

Joined:Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:25 pm

Re: HMRC-is it time to call the Army in?

Postby etf » Sun Apr 28, 2024 9:25 am

Have HMRC run out of cash having overspent so heavily on MTD4IT?

RE: Self Assessment refund delays
9 days ago – Self Assessment refund delays
Self assessment processed April last year waited patiently until January for repayment- saying repayment pending and when I contacted them online chat you guessed it security checks they will raise ticket - wait two months which I did said still security checks can’t contact until 15 May - Sent complaint in tier one was reply it’s they can not help as it’s with security check team ? they can not interfere- this is a disgrace it really is I tried phone and cut off - have just raised another complaint July expect response- just filled this year self assessment and owed money and it’s repayment pending - just what are we supposed to do it’s unacceptable/ unbelievable how bad the tax office is I just can’t believe it takes 12 months to get my money that’s owed it makes no sense unless they just don’t want to pay what’s owed ? - any advice please help

Repayment Pending 12 months
18 days ago – Repayment Pending 12 months
I submitted self assessment for 2022/2023 in April last year - given calculations that I am owed amount £ - I requested repayment and it’s been pending until I contacted again and said security checks in process will send ticket on issue - told wait two months which I did - contacted again and told I must wait until middle of May checks with another team and nothing they can do - I said I am not happy and given complaint contact details- sent a complaint about the time and reason it’s taking over 12 months with nothing communicated- letter arrives tier 1 complaint closed as it’s security checks and nothing they can get involved with - I have to wait until May and what if I get the same response- no point in raising a complaint ? - tried ringing that’s just a nightmare- what do I do ? - I have been told approach my local MP - - this is so frustrating please advise or help me please

RE: Self Assessment Refund delays and lack of communication
18 days ago – Self Assessment Refund delays and lack of communication
I really feel for you with the frustration of dealing with obtaining a repayment- I have been waiting since April last year - contacted for update and given its security checks and not allowed to contact until a certain date - waited nothing happened then contacted again and told with security checks wait until May before contacting them again - said I am not happy- told raise a complaint which I did - response we can not intervene with security checks so I have to wait until May before contact again it’s a tier 1 and raise complaint to tier 2 if not happy - what are we supposed to do this is a disgrace- I have now submitted self assessment for the new tax year and owed again an amount of money and that’s showing payment pending I am really struggling to think of a way out here - no contact given with new date when you have online chat and nothing happens- I am just totally lost and frustrated- good luck with issue

Joined:Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:25 pm

Re: HMRC-is it time to call the Army in?

Postby etf » Sun Apr 28, 2024 10:57 am

Are 44 week timescales to answer post acceptable? Another example of Sir Jim spending his budget on his Ferrari and letting day to day services become appalling....has anyone discussed this with Sir Jim?

Posted 4 months ago by HMRC Admin 20

Hi HamishF1631,

Sorry that you’re experiencing problems in getting through to our National Insurance Helpline.

The lines open at 8am and are usually quieter in the early morning if you would like to speak with an Adviser.

However, I’ve checked the timescales for the Team that process A1’s and can advise that they are dealing with queries received from customers on 21 February 2023 at the moment.

So if your request was sent later than that then there will be about a 44 week wait from them receiving your request to providing you with a reply.

Thank you.

Joined:Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:25 pm

Re: HMRC-is it time to call the Army in?

Postby etf » Thu May 09, 2024 2:35 pm

The current appalling state of HMRC was amplified this week with the receipt of a notice to file a tax return which was dated 6 April 2024 but which arrived in the post over one month later.

Whilst the poor decision making of HMRC's leadership/HMRC service levels both receive a mention in this month's Tax Adviser magazine I'm afraid I don't share the sympathy shown for HMRC. Those at the top of HMRC continue to publish misleading statistics...viz 92.1% of customer correspondence cleared within 40 working days. If that statistic is correct why are there overpayment relief claims which are over 10 months old and HMRC is unable to advise when they will be processed (source Page 6 of May 2024 Tax Adviser magazine).

Please somebody start asking Sir Jim the bleeding obvious questions to fully expose the true state of chaos in the organisation.

Joined:Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:25 pm

Re: HMRC-is it time to call the Army in?

Postby etf » Mon May 13, 2024 5:29 pm

Over 3 years after this thread was created, finally an acknowledgement that services are terrible. I agree with Kevin's analysis too. Jim and Angela won't make the correct decision because they are both toast one MTD4IT is shelved. Please remember quite recently Angela said HMRC were world bull***t perhaps.

HMRC given £51m to sort out failing helplines

HMRC has received a £51m cash injection to improve helpline services and get staff answering more calls.

By kevinringer
13th May 2024 14:28
HMRC already have the money to fix this, it's just that HMRC have chosen to waste the money on MTD instead.

HMRC also need to fix webchat; HMRC tells us to use that but I've tried several times today and it says no one is available. And HMRC need to fix their document (paper and online) processing backlog too.

Joined:Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:25 pm

Re: HMRC-is it time to call the Army in?

Postby etf » Mon May 13, 2024 9:09 pm

By Mr J Andrews
13th May 2024 19:03
''Angela : Jim here. We need to do something with the £51M. Any ideas ? These grillings are no good for my blood pressure''
''Hi Jim ; it's supposed to be for helping our customers to get through to us by phone''.
'' I know that but how are we going to educate them to become digital. You know my views ; it's not my fault if the general public can't cope with digital. They even have the gall to say they can't get answers from our Online Service''. Are we in the 20th century or not ?''
''It's 21st century actually Jim. Leave it to me. I'm sure we can get another mass response to working from home for taking calls. And as an incentive , how about a little perk ; an alarm clock perhaps ?''
''Good idea. I knew you would come up with something. And don't forget to deploy an equal amount of staff for keeping statistics. Manual records should do in case they can't cope. Best to double up on the stats. Try and keep the question boxes and ticks geared to my estimate that two- thirds of Self Assessments calls could have been dealt with online. My medal could depend on this''.
'' Your award is as certain as M.T.D. Jim. Bye Bye''

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